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MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:48:04 PM

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I saw a program on television this morning that recounted the story of Pam Reynolds. It contained interviews with everybody involved, including the doctors that performed her surgery, and Pam herself. If you google the phrase "near death experiences", you get buttloads of stories about people that have come near death, or in some cases been clinically dead, and been resuscitated. Many of these people describe sensations of floating, of seeing relatives, of seeing God himself. All while actually being dead. In many cases, I veiw these stories with a healthy dose of skepticism, but Pam's story is something else.

Pam's story.


Quote:
Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate. This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically and brain dead.

When all of Pam's vital signs were stopped, the doctor turned on a surgical saw and began to cut through Pam's skull. While this was going on, Pam reported that she felt herself "pop" outside her body and hover above the operating table. Then she watched the doctors working on her lifeless body for awhile. From her out-of-body position, she observed the doctor sawing into her skull with what looked to her like an electric toothbrush. Pam heard and reported later what the nurses in the operating room had said and exactly what was happening during the operation. At this time, every monitor attached to Pam's body registered "no life" whatsoever. At some point, Pam's consciousness floated out of the operating room and traveled down a tunnel which had a light at the end of it where her deceased relatives and friends were waiting including her long-dead grandmother. Pam's NDE ended when her deceased uncle led her back to her body for her to reentered it. Pam compared the feeling of reentering her dead body to "plunging into a pool of ice." The following is Pam Reynolds' account of her NDE in her own words.


Where do you stand on the issue of near-death experiences? Floating down a long tunnel, going "into the light"? Is it all bunk? Or could it be possible that amidst all the fakers, there are some honest people doing their best to describe an experience that can only be seen or felt when you're beyond life?
Guest
Posted: Sunday, November 28, 2010 7:04:42 PM

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my husband brings people "back to life" all the time...sometimes more than once. he hears lots of different things. some people see loved ones..some see the tunnel and light some see nothing at all. i really think its what the individual believes they will see is that they do indeed see. that our subconscious plays a big part in it.

i will say that my husband tells me when his patients start talking to deceased loved ones he knows their time to pass is upon them and it is only a matter of hours..
Woman
Posted: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:41:33 PM

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Location: Stopping the war 'tween Harold and Kumar
LittleMissBitch wrote:
i will say that my husband tells me when his patients start talking to deceased loved ones he knows their time to pass is upon them and it is only a matter of hours..


Ok. That makes a boatload of sense... BUT that is freaky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and really neat too!!!)

Living life and enjoying life are two different things... just need to figure out how to do both at the same time to live it right!

Woman... GO FLY A KITE!!!!! Take a slideshow walk with me on a walk through the parks of Inner Mongolia, China. Then enjoy the tale of a very traditional day in the life of a white Woman in China.
mercianknight
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:51:02 AM

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Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
What a great article, and thanks to LMB for her contribution too.

Makes you think, eh? It would be nice to think that death is simply the next stage of 'the journey'.

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:30:43 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,328
Location: California
The fact that Pam Reynolds accurately described what was happening to her while she was out does make you think... I would like to know if she had a background in medicine or if she did extensive research about the procedure beforehand. It could have all been in her subconscious already and maybe she just had a quick vivid dream immediately before or after she was dead. Can't dreams only last a few seconds but feel like hours?



SweetPenny
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:40:52 AM

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I do believe that there is some sort of an after-life, but I don't really think we get to "taste" it until we are actually there...permanently.

As for Pam's story, there are similar stories of people being aware of what is happening during their surgeries. Sometimes medicines and anesthesia can have funny effects on people. And people aren't always "asleep" when they are supposed to be. I'm assuming that Pam's situation was similar. Just because the machines were saying that she was dead, that obviously doesn't mean that she really was. If Pam was brought back to life, then she was never really dead.
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:55:23 AM

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SweetPenny wrote:
If Pam was brought back to life, then she was never really dead.


wellllll....not to be nit picky...but you can be fully brain dead, no body funtion (ie your heart has stopped beating, you have stopped breathing) and be brought back. happens all the time.
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:58:59 AM

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mercianknight wrote:
Makes you think, eh? It would be nice to think that death is simply the next stage of 'the journey'.



yesssss!
SweetPenny
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:17:18 AM

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Location: State of Confusion
LittleMissBitch wrote:
SweetPenny wrote:
If Pam was brought back to life, then she was never really dead.


wellllll....not to be nit picky...but you can be fully brain dead, no body funtion (ie your heart has stopped beating, you have stopped breathing) and be brought back. happens all the time.




I'm aware of that. I just wouldn't call that dead. In my opinion, if someone is "brought back," then he/she was never really dead. Death is permanent.
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:15:54 AM

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SweetPenny wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
SweetPenny wrote:
If Pam was brought back to life, then she was never really dead.


wellllll....not to be nit picky...but you can be fully brain dead, no body funtion (ie your heart has stopped beating, you have stopped breathing) and be brought back. happens all the time.




I'm aware of that. I just wouldn't call that dead. In my opinion, if someone is "brought back," then he/she was never really dead. Death is permanent.


6 of one half a dozen of the other i guess then..
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:42:03 AM

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LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...



Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 12:39:05 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:
LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...


you know what..i dont know. but i know someone who does :) ill ask him when he wakes up :)
obscura
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 3:10:31 PM

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From what I remember, and it's not a lot, cessation of the heartbeat doesn't equal death, obviously since we use CPR for cardiac arrest. Death is only announced when electrical activity ceases in the brain for an extended period, that is, brain dead, like an irreversable coma. But then the definition of brain dead is very questionable.

I didn't believe inducing clinical death in order to perform surgery is as unusual as the OP makes out. Brain activity weakens but doesn't stop, whereas heart and consequently bloodflow do, allowing the surgeon to work on major arteries. Then the hypothermia is just to slow the onset of ischemia.

LMB, wake him up! :)

Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 3:24:25 PM

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obscura wrote:
From what I remember, and it's not a lot, cessation of the heartbeat doesn't equal death, obviously since we use CPR for cardiac arrest. Death is only announced when electrical activity ceases in the brain for an extended period, that is, brain dead, like an irreversable coma. But then the definition of brain dead is very questionable.

I didn't believe inducing clinical death in order to perform surgery is as unusual as the OP makes out. Brain activity weakens but doesn't stop, whereas heart and consequently bloodflow do, allowing the surgeon to work on major arteries. Then the hypothermia is just to slow the onset of ischemia.

LMB, wake him up! :)



heheee....soon :)
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 5:19:21 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:
LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...


ok..im typing as he speaks.."medically speaking when someone is brain dead they are dead. all synapses stop and they become organ donors. the family is sent home and nothing more can be done. brain death is now a specific and well defined term and several tests are preformed to determine brain death, including apnea test (removing patient from vent and observing for 15 mins). When a patient is in surgery and experiencing a circulatory arrest they are not brain dead..just very little activity, some synapes are firing, however it is unlikely and unexplainable that some one would be able to have any sensory experiences. but, medicine is full of unexplainable things. when someone goes into cardiac arrest for example their brain doesnt stop just the heart so the electricity is still in the brain."

so there you have it from a bad ass CCRN ~ my husband :)

i asked him to join our site so that he can be our "medical pro". he asked if he will receive any special favors at Lush reunions. maybe i should introduce him to our Church and our high priestess ;-)
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:06:19 PM

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Moderator

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LittleMissBitch wrote:

i asked him to join our site so that he can be our "medical pro". he asked if he will receive any special favors at Lush reunions. maybe i should introduce him to our Church and our high priestess ;-)


Clearly, word of my naked sermons has gotten out. I pack that church every Sunday, baby... please bring your husband by to be officially anointed with our "Holy Lube"...

...your High Priestess of Lush XO

Guest
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:11:27 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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Dancing_Doll wrote:
Clearly, word of my naked sermons has gotten out. I pack that church every Sunday, baby...


fill those collection plates Doll...i need a new car ;)
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 7:54:57 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,328
Location: California
LittleMissBitch wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...


ok..im typing as he speaks.."medically speaking when someone is brain dead they are dead. all synapses stop and they become organ donors. the family is sent home and nothing more can be done. brain death is now a specific and well defined term and several tests are preformed to determine brain death, including apnea test (removing patient from vent and observing for 15 mins). When a patient is in surgery and experiencing a circulatory arrest they are not brain dead..just very little activity, some synapes are firing, however it is unlikely and unexplainable that some one would be able to have any sensory experiences. but, medicine is full of unexplainable things. when someone goes into cardiac arrest for example their brain doesnt stop just the heart so the electricity is still in the brain."

so there you have it from a bad ass CCRN ~ my husband :)

i asked him to join our site so that he can be our "medical pro". he asked if he will receive any special favors at Lush reunions. maybe i should introduce him to our Church and our high priestess ;-)


Thank you Doctor. So it's not likely that this brain activity causes people to maybe think they had an out of body experience but it's not proven that it doesn't? Pretty interesting. Maybe this minimal activity plus a very strong faith might be some kind of starting point for explaining this..



Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:01:25 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
Magical_felix wrote:
Thank you Doctor. So it's not likely that this brain activity causes people to maybe think they had an out of body experience but it's not proven that it doesn't? Pretty interesting. Maybe this minimal activity plus a very strong faith might be some kind of starting point for explaining this..


yep i think so too :)
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:10:33 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
LittleMissBitch wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...


ok..im typing as he speaks.."medically speaking when someone is brain dead they are dead. all synapses stop and they become organ donors. the family is sent home and nothing more can be done. brain death is now a specific and well defined term and several tests are preformed to determine brain death, including apnea test (removing patient from vent and observing for 15 mins). When a patient is in surgery and experiencing a circulatory arrest they are not brain dead..just very little activity, some synapes are firing, however it is unlikely and unexplainable that some one would be able to have any sensory experiences. but, medicine is full of unexplainable things. when someone goes into cardiac arrest for example their brain doesnt stop just the heart so the electricity is still in the brain."

so there you have it from a bad ass CCRN ~ my husband :)

i asked him to join our site so that he can be our "medical pro". he asked if he will receive any special favors at Lush reunions. maybe i should introduce him to our Church and our high priestess ;-)


So your husbands a critical care nurse? Very good. They have a special touch/gift.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:37:56 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
chefkathleen wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
LBM, are there still synapses firing even when someone is brain dead or do those immediately stop when someone goes brain dead for a minute? Does the electricity in the brain stay there when you're being revived? Forgive some of my terminology...


ok..im typing as he speaks.."medically speaking when someone is brain dead they are dead. all synapses stop and they become organ donors. the family is sent home and nothing more can be done. brain death is now a specific and well defined term and several tests are preformed to determine brain death, including apnea test (removing patient from vent and observing for 15 mins). When a patient is in surgery and experiencing a circulatory arrest they are not brain dead..just very little activity, some synapes are firing, however it is unlikely and unexplainable that some one would be able to have any sensory experiences. but, medicine is full of unexplainable things. when someone goes into cardiac arrest for example their brain doesnt stop just the heart so the electricity is still in the brain."

so there you have it from a bad ass CCRN ~ my husband :)

i asked him to join our site so that he can be our "medical pro". he asked if he will receive any special favors at Lush reunions. maybe i should introduce him to our Church and our high priestess ;-)


So your husbands a critical care nurse? Very good. They have a special touch/gift.



yep he is and yes they really do..they do amazing things.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:40:21 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
I agree. I had a very special one for my mother when she passed. What a wonderful man he was. So kind and understanding. I'll forever remember him.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:54:15 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
chefkathleen wrote:
I agree. I had a very special one for my mother when she passed. What a wonderful man he was. So kind and understanding. I'll forever remember him.


thats awesome chef...my husband gets letters from families like that all the time..
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