American Exceptionalism is an amazing thing. Which country had a better election system than America? Pretty much all of them. I don’t know what metric you use but I can’t think of any that America excels at.

Why do you think our system is good? It’s not one person, one vote. In fact it’s incredibly weighted that smaller states have a huge amount of electoral representation compared to large states. Because of the electoral system, any state that firmly swings one way is a non-issue. 85% of campaign spending will be spent in about 10 states. They only hit the others for campaign fund raising.

The only two major candidates are despised by the plurality of Americans. You need huge amounts of money and billions in support to run campaigns. The majority of Americans can vote for one candidate and they still lose.

That’s not even dipping into issues such as voter suppression or gerrymandering. Seriously, what is your base of that wild claim?

I’m a fan of the old school flavors, which are either grape or strawberry. If I have to decide, I’ll go strawberry.

Quote by Dani

Nah. You don’t have more to lose, and you don’t have less privileges, but if it’s comforting for you to believe you do, I won’t take that from you. I also won’t begrudge you of your beliefs regarding what/how I fight and to what extent. One thing I am not is apathetic, so tread carefully there. You can snivel about the rest to your heart’s content.

Not sure what my not having children has to do with any of this, as if that’s the only motivation for not wanting the world to be a shit show for future generations, so I don’t have that much to say in that regard. But again, if it makes you feel superior, have at it. Because that’s what this has all been about, right? Your vehement beliefs that your approach to fucking people over in ways that we both know won’t impact you is the superior belief system. And that the fuckass Green Party is the superior party that will save us all. You believe that so much that you’ll intentionally sacrifice your kids’ future as a lesson. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of the conversations you’ll have if this shit goes the way you want it. “See kids? This unprecedented suffering was all in daddy’s plan. Doesn’t matter that your body no longer belongs to you and your rights are stripped on a regular basis. We gotta teach these folks a lesson!”

You know what else is telling? I’ve never said which direction I’d be casting my vote, or if I’m even voting. All I said was that I’d vote for what I believe is a shot at the least dismal future, and you assumed I was going with the Democrats. You’re literally voting for a party hoping for the aftermath of a Republican victory. You say melodramatic bullshit like “cowing to the Democrats” while taking pride in bending over for the Republicans. LMAO

Even if I am cowing to the Democrats as you say, I’m grateful that my ego hasn’t deceived me to the extent that your blind devotion has. The only point I’ve been making in all of this is that there is no “least” amount of suffering in this election. But voicing hope for the worst outcome is incredibly fucked, even if the end goal is a possibility that it fucks the system that’s fucking us.

Actually, having typed all that, maybe you have to feel superior and like you’re doing what’s best for everyone because desperation has led you there. I know that desperation is born out of circumstances beyond your control, so I sincerely empathize with you there. The world’s so shit that two strangers are trying to convince each other that their chosen turd is the shiniest, on a sex site of all places. Kinda fucked when you think about it. No pun intended.

I am simply voting for a change. Any context you try to assign it is your own.

I’m not hoping for the worst outcome, I’m hoping for the only outcome that holds any possibility of changing things in the extremely short time table we’re dealing with.

Why do I bring up kids? Because if we fail as a generation we are leaving them the world in a state that will be in a legitimate apocalyptic scenario, The I’ve caps are melting, the east coast is going to set record temps multiple times in one week, the Biden administration is calling for a proliferation of America’s nuclear strike capabilities. Maybe people feel as though they can just ride it out but that’s not something that holds true for the younger generations.

And I think constantly slagging off any forum of discussion is a lazy argument. The ‘it doesn’t matter, this is a fuck site’ casts aside that sexual liberation leads to leftist politics. I have found a few people who’ve I learned from and made lots of connections from the forums alone.

Quote by noll

Since Trump is a very narcissistic old fart this might not take that long. Trump sees himself as God's gift to mankind, so he's not likely to appoint a successor. Sure, he'll choose a running mate, but I highly doubt that he'll name a 'crown prince(ss)' for the MAGA movement. And that will be the weak point of the movement. Because once Trump is gone, infighting within the movement will ensue, because too many folks will want to take his place.

MAGA will split in True MAGA, Original MAGA, @RealMAGA, MAGA Majority, Make MAGA Great Again, Keep MAGA Great, etc.

If Trump does name a successor, then it will probably be Ivanka, but she might actually be a bit too diplomatic to keep that true MAGA pulse beating.

Or we get someone ever further unhinged and then in another 4 years it’s yet another ‘most important election ever’ and another ‘yes, we’ve gotten progressively more right wing but you are obligated to vote for us again.’

This same tired argument that the Republicans will collapse soon has not panned out at all in my lifetime. All I’ve seen is more radicalized right. And you’ve continued to not offer a plan, you’re blindly hoping the other side will just pack it in and go home.

Historically speaking, power vacuums in far right politics lead to further radicalization. So what if in four years the Democrats further dig in to right wing conservative ideology while the Republicans again go further extreme? You are asking for absolute blind faith in a process that’s proven it only makes things worse.

Quote by Dani

Yeah, this sounds really pretty, and I'm sure it feels nice convincing yourself that hoping for suffering that you, yourself will hardly experience (if at all) is the morally sound decision. But in reality, it makes you no different than those against whom you claim to rally. Sacrificing others and not yourself for a good cause is cool, I guess.

I assure you, there's no comfort in how I navigate the systems that impact me. Quite privileged of you to assume so, LOL. Being that I have vast experience in being trampled by systems in ways that you never will be, I understand all to well the push and pull of political games and the impact therein. I live this shit every day. Tell me of the most recent right(s) and privilege(s) taken from and/or denied to you and I'll tell you mine. I hate to play that card, but you toss around words like privilege as if you and I are the same in that regard. I quite literally can't have a privileged perspective, or it would mean my demise. Anything I've ever "accepted" about these systems have been entirely against my will. Therefore I'm fully aware of how dismantling these fucked systems is the only safe and productive way forward, so please spare me the lesson in that regard. You, in particular, will never have the range to teach me anything in that vein, and it's cringey to see you try.

With that being said, if the lesser of evil that we all know how to navigate is what we got, then that's what I choose. I don't claim to know the way forward because I'm still figuring this shit out myself, but I do know that blind faith in any political party or affiliation is how we end up in this same spot every 4 years. The part that seems to escape you is that your faith in the Green Party or whatever party you'll have the privilege of tossing your vote is also a part of that system. It is asinine to think any party born out of our current system, even the ones claiming to combat them, will be impactful enough to change it, especially when the goal is to claim the same level of power and status as the current parties. It's just supremacy in a different outfit. No system made in the image of our current system, regardless of how great their principles are, will ever resist reverting back to its previous dysfunction. Your failure to recognize that will always be counterintuitive to whatever moral standard you believe you embody.

As far as me having empty rhetoric and no action, you have no idea what actions I take towards dismantling systems, or at the very least supporting and empowering others with the resources at my disposal as they navigate the same fucked systems as myself. I'm just not inclined to share them on a fuck site. Even if this is the Think Tank, I have my limits. However, I assure you, my actions extend much further than meaningless arguments in a Think Tank on a sex site under the guise of an Elle Varner avatar. I come here to blow off steam, not to invoke change. I know where my voice and actions are the most productive and impactful, so that's where I use them.

You're voting third party because if it goes to shit in the ways that you're hoping, it will impact you the least. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't be. It's easy to make sacrifices when you're not the one that's actually gonna be sacrificed. I'd entertain your faulty sense of morality if it was your ass on the line in your decision-making process. But again, you know it's not. That's why your belief of yourself as having a moral high ground is tainted and empty at best. It's actually quite telling that you believe you have a moral high ground. No morally sound person would claim such a thing.

I appreciate you informing me that my approach isn't good enough for you. I use the disapproval of people like you as my moral compass. Lets me know I'm on the right track in this endless puddle of shit we're trying to escape.

I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m safe from the impact of a Trump election. I live in America and unlike you I have young children who will have to face the long term ramifications of the liberal apathy and right wing power grabs. Bending the knee to either is leaving my children to a future of hyper violence, food and water shortages, and nuclear war.

You aren’t fighting, you’re giving up on your terms. You’re enabling every problem you claim to fight.

Like I don’t know what you do off this site, you obviously don’t know what I do but you are quick to judge anyway. Don’t know anything about my family,, don’t know about the community service and activism I join. As far as I can tell I have far more to lose than you do, maybe that’s why I can’t settle like you can.

You have the privilege of cowing to the Democrats, my family doesn’t.

How long of a time line for it to ‘end the MAGA’ movement? There’s no plan, no alternative ideas offered. In fact the last four years of Democrats has strengthened it.

And it’s not the only the Republicans cranking the country further right. Biden is running the country like Reagan. The Democrats have opened up more oil drilling than Trump did and approved a massive drilling and pipeline project. They’ve taken away rights from immigrants and decided to adopt policies to fight asylum seekers that they themselves would have raised the alarm about a decade ago.

Meanwhile the Democrats often spend more money fighting progressives in primaries than they spend on the actual election against Republicans.

And the whole time scientists are screaming for immediate change. Health care systems are collapsing, farming is producing less and less, Democrats in Congress make millions off of weapon stocks and you say it will magically get better after decades of decline.

Chances and opportunities have been given in excess to the Dems, and they keep showing they just don’t care.

We allow the most selfish and entitled to continue to hold power, and they continue to do so by a system put in place to keep people on the edge and desperate.

If you could pet only one, a kitten or puppy?

Quote by Dani

So you're protest voting to punish the Democrats so they can learn a lesson with a Republican's victory?

What an incredibly privileged perspective. You want an exponential amount of people to continue suffering in unfathomable ways. Ways that you, yourself, won't suffer in the slightest (at the very least, not to the extent that those will far less privilege than you will suffer), all so a political party learns a lesson. And you genuinely believe you have the moral high ground here? And don't give me that shit about "I don't wanna go with a candidate that supports genocide" while salivating at the idea that your throwaway vote yields catastrophic results because you want other people's suffering to galvanize politicians.

It would be different (still stupid, but less disgusting) if you were choosing party over principle. But you know you're using your throwaway vote to siphon votes to the Republican party so that they win, because you'll feel vindicated when things go to shit. It's quite hypocritical of you to throw away your vote because you don't want a candidate that supports genocide (fair enough), but your intention is that there's even more suffering to teach the Democrats a lesson. How is that better?

Your "stance" is so empty. "I'm voting third party because I refuse to support a candidate who is funding a genocide, because I know the Republicans, who will also continue to fund a genocide and bring about even more suffering and the loss of rights in ways that ultimately won't impact me, will win, and teach the other party a lesson."

Ew.

I find the stance of accepting the status quo to be what’s truly privileged. That means you acknowledge the suffering and hardships of others but refuse to take action.

From a place of comfort you accept the exact system that has made things progressively worse for decades because you have the privilege to make due.

And I think the idea that we can change this country’s hyper violence and colonial grip on the world without subverting and dismantling the current system is lazy idealism. One that is die for many to accept, especially those without kids who won’t have to see them suffering in a world of climate chaos and genocidal state violence. I do feel the moral high ground in this case.

I’m voting 3rd party because I refuse to believe the steady march to climate destruction and colonial tyranny is not acceptable. That yielding to ‘the lesser of two evils’ is still the firm and unwavering support of those evils. All I hear from you is empty rhetoric with no real action. Not good enough for me.

Frankly if you don’t believe you’re on the moral high ground how are you living you’re life?

Same way the Trump victory propelled the BLM movement and radicalized the youth vote to the far left. Because the only way you can get the Democrats to oppose a crime against humanity is to have a Republican in office.

American protesters flooding the streets is the only way anything will change in Palestine. Because the function of a Biden or Trump presidency in regards to Palestine is exactly the same. A racist, genocidal colonial attack supported by people like you.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps perpetuate it. He who accepts evil without protesting it is really cooperating with it.

Voting for a third party is not an endorsement of Trump. It’s a vote to oppose the entire system that starves children, enforces genocide, perpetuates war for profit, and destroys the planet as a unilateral American policy regardless of which of the two parties you enforce.

Honestly you’re more aligned with Trump than I am. You enforce 95% of his policies, because it’s the same as Biden’s. You are far more of a Trump suppose than I am. You want the same things he does. You support the same far right policies that cause the issue you brought up.

Quote by Magical_felix

Ok cool that damn Obama! He's not even American! 🤬 Zelenskyy bad!

The question was, how does a Trump presidency help the conflict in Ukraine?

Ok go.

And you’ve proven my point, you’re lack of response to any issue I pointed out shows you really know nothing about the region. The past or even current events outside of what pro-American news sites report. You don’t know the history or the current political climate within the country.

Quote by Magical_felix

Right now there are 13 million children living with hunger in the United States. I wonder what needs to happen for far left virtue signalers to sit in the street or do whatever they do to “help”.

Please.

Don’t worry, while the Democrats were in power out UN rep voted against making food access a human right.

But the Dems voted for a space train and $850 billion in military expenses. Like the Palestinian genocide issue, it looks like if I want a candidate that gives a damn about child hunger I’ll need to vote third party.

Oh, you’re not ready for a conversation about Ukraine. Wanna talk about Bogdan Syrotiuk? America’s role in causing the war? The Obama administration’s role in escalating violence in the region? The Azov Assault Brigade? The denial of any new elections? The extreme corruption of the Ukrainian government? The banning of socialist web sites? The attack on anti-war protesters from the Ukrainian government? Zelenskyy dissolving parliament?

I don’t think you’re educated enough on the subject to hold that conversation.

Numbers of dead Palestinians, who are mostly women, children, and elderly people are now at 40,000 since the start of the year. This largely includes bombings of refuge camps, hospitals, schools, and food distribution centers.

This was all done with American weaponry that we provided. Since that time Biden has called for unconditional extra funding of the Israeli military. Biden wishes the same deaths upon the Palestinian people as Trump.

So what does a third party protest vote do? It shows you cannot run as a left wing candidate, support a genocide, and win. It alters future party decisions on candidates. It creates the need to change policy if you want to stay in power.

And mostly I can sleep at night knowing I’m not voting for genocide. Maybe you can sleep with that but I can’t.

I don’t know why this is such a hard concept but voting for a candidate is offering your support to their policies and actions. A vote for Biden or Trump is a vote condoning the way they ran the country and the actions they’ve taken abroad.

Fairly rural, a great school for my older son, forests all around, good pocket of weather to keep it moderate year round.

Do you volunteer for projects in your community?

I really don’t care what you do. I’m addressing what you said, not you. Feel free to respond (which you always do even when you have nothing to say) but don’t expect you’re calls for blind subservience to the Democrats to go without response. Now go ahead and hear your head roar if you like, I’m going to stick to the topic at hand from here on out.

Quote by LuceDevlin

This sounds like a failure of parenting if adolescents access adult sites, Yes, age verification is important but most adults/parents don't know how to set up parental blocks on the media services they pay for, to protect underage eyes from seeing things they don't need to see. Teach parents that, and it solves a large chunk of the problem, That way when folk are of appropriate age, they can do grown folk things.

I infinitely believe kids are faster with the tech than their parents. Also can’t put parental blocks on every piece of tech a kid could get a hold of.

When I was in high school we knew more about firewalls and getting around security than the IT professional the district hired for the school computers.

On your note though, good parenting is how you put your kid on a good track. Trying to avoid sex being seen as or shameful and having open and honest talks with my kids when they ask questions I believe puts them on the right track to making correct decisions and contextualizing what they see online. I let them know that I occasionally check their general internet activity for their safety and as they get older and more mature I do it less and less.

It's a counter-point, baby doll, so people know what I was responding to. There were posts in between. With how you troll the forums, I would have hoped you gleaned how this works by now.

If I thought you were the only person reading responses it wouldn't be worth my time to type them.

Quote by Magical_felix

You’re making a case for not voting for a 3rd party, dummy. Because Trump winning will not make any of this go away. And a 3rd party will not win. And a third party will be bought and sold just as easily. Not sure why you keep telling me things I already know, I’m not going to be pro-trump no matter what you say.

I'm not talking to you, sweetness. You have no sense and live in a similar reality of unthinking black and whites as Trump supporters.

This is a public forum and you're not the only person who reads these. The point of voting third party isn't to win in this election. It's to send a message and break control from third parties. To me the slow and methodical totalitarianism of the Democrats is more dangerous than Trump. Trump inspires marches in the streets and people fighting back against oppression. Trump radicalizes the left, and that's the only way we get out of this corporate-inspired apocalypse we're marching toward now.

Quote by Magical_felix

As an American who talks to Americans offline everyday, the genocide in Gaza is not a talking point at all. Even when I’ve brought up what’s going on in Israel, Americans either don’t know, don’t care, or are supportive of Israel because “terrorism is bad”. It’s not as big of a single issue as it seems online amongst people who are already aware and either searching content about it or getting it recommended to them. The reality is that it’s not in the news here or on peoples minds. Not saying that’s right or wrong but it’s not a huge single issue that will get a majority or Americans to vote for a 3rd party. If anything, far left voters will get Trump elected again, ironically. Like you say, either they just won’t vote or 3rd party vote which is the same thing really. Biden being an old bag of bones hurts him yes and some might just not vote which is great for Trump. Going to be an annoying four years at best, dangerous at worst, no matter what.

Biden did not have a landslide victory in 2020. He won many key states by thin margins. One of the biggest demographics he held was the youth vote. Current polling shows that the youth vote is now more divided than ever with 30% of those who voted in 2020 or first-time voters saying they will vote third party or not at all. An additional 10% are now undecided.

Key States like Georgia had an astounding 55% voter turnout in the under-30 category, something that sadly is a record in America for that state.

Another key thing to remember is youth activism was huge for the Biden campaign. College students were a workhorse for the 2020 campaign, getting new people registered to vote or spreading messages on social media helped propel him in many states. But this year we had the Biden administration actively defending police action and arrests of protestors on campuses.

Similarly, Biden's recent asylum restrictions have soured another key voting demographic in his 2020 victory, Latino voters. He's lost much of that support while Trump's base remains unmoved. Biden's asylum policy was made hoping he would win votes over from Trump, but the Trump voters are unmoving.

His repeated backing of corporations and oil companies, opening more drilling than Trump did, caving to any demand Manchin made and starting drilling in the Appalachian Mountains have soured environmentalists.

Touting the Dow numbers do nothing to sway 90% of Americans who own no stock. All they see are record profits and no foreseeable way to afford homes. Record income inequality is pushed by Biden policies just as much as Trump's did. As the lower and disappearing middle class struggle, Biden celebrates metrics that will draw no new voters to him.

The point here is that the 2020 election was not won by wooing one demographic, it was won by inches and enticing many different groups to come out and vote for Biden. He's shown over the last four years that he holds no loyalty to those who voted for him and is far more concerned with trying to peel away from the 'swing voters' that don't really exist. Appealing to the poor, the minorities, the huddled masses is how the Democrats win elections. Instead, they appeal to Super PACS, the richest Americans, and corporate lobbyists hoping to win this election with a large war chest rather than grass roots efforts.

People do tend to remember supporting a genocide, yes.

Well, the voters of Florida passed by referendum that convicts can vote, but the right wing state government added a bunch of rules that makes it hard to tell if you can and really muddied the waters on the whole deal. After attempting to prosecute a few people who received mail that said they could vote and legitimately believed they could, many just refuse to because they are worried about those cases.

Voter suppression at its finest, business as usual in the South. Actually a really good case example of how the government suppresses the will of the people, even after they successfully pass laws by vote in the state. Read up on Amendment 4 that was passed in 2018 for more info.

Long story short, Trump probably can because he’s rich and has the connections to fast line any paperwork requirements to restore his voting rights. Also no DA in Florida is going to pursue those charges.

Quote by Magical_felix

Trump supports Israel, dummy.

Yeah, I don’t support Trump. So it seems if I don’t want to vote for a candidate who supports a genocide in Palestine I need to vote for a third party. Thanks for the help.

Quote by WellMadeMale

Vote for Trump or anyone but Biden - and you give your thumbs up to more of this fucking bullshit.

Vote for Biden to express your tacit approval of genocide, so long as we’re speaking in broad and overreaching terms.

Multiple universities are experiencing lawsuits for punishing students for using AI, but with no proof besides an AI bot telling them the paper was AI generated.

The problem is teachers are ironically relying on AI and not their own senses to sniff out generated papers but the tools themselves are quite unreliable. Then students have little to no procedural actions to defend themselves. The computer says you cheated so you did.

In lab settings where they had students write papers in front of them, the AI anti-cheating tools still flagged several papers as AI generated. Experts noted formal tones and good grammar would often result in false flags.

To your other points, the education system is poorly optimized and more concerned with standardized testing than education, vocational training, or life skills. I’m an accountant, I used to be an engineer, and I have never used 80% of my math lessons from middle school forward. Students are drilled on memorizing the quadratic formula and not taught how to find healthcare, change a tire, file taxes, or other life skills.

AI will thrive in environments that focus on jumping through hoops and meeting certain metrics. Students are disillusioned by mandated testing and subjects they don’t care about and don’t need. AI plagiarism will become more prominent and harder to detect in these conditions.

Quote by Magical_felix

What's the green party going to do about it? Borrow some money from Russia to go plant a tree in Israel?

lol

Stop funding foreign wars. Apparently you can’t be arsed to read.

Want to get into Biden accepting $5.2 million dollars in donations from the Israeli Super PAC, AIPAC? Or that Democrats received about $40 million in donations from AIPAC and it’s affiliate, UDP in the last 6 months? including a huge surge of donations to both democrats and republicans after they passed the bill to send a few more billion in free weapons to Israel?

Latest counts of those killed by Israeli attacks in the least 6 months total over 35,000 counted, not including those dead by starvation and disease. Over half of those killed are women and children. Bombing of refuge camps, hospitals, and schools are a daily occurrence. And Biden calls his support of this “Iron Clad”.

But please, tell me more of the Democrat lead investigation that found no evidence against third parties. I’m sure that will sway the college students being arrested for protesting and make them loyal Democrats.

So you’re evidence is a Democrat spurred investigation that investigated and found no evidence the Green Party colluded with the Russians.

Then it’s a conspiracy theory that any third party candidate is a Russian plant.

And then the non-points of voting for third party takes away votes from the two parties (which is the point).

Meanwhile they are a party with extreme differences in policies and beliefs and much more align with what the average American says they want from their government. And I can’t emphasize this enough…

They are against the genocide in Palestine. Something that Biden supports wholly and has used all his political clout to fund.

You arguments are tired and don’t actually focus on policy of any politician at all. Just more fear mongering to try and keep people in line with the two party system.

Want to copy/paste the criticisms and controversy section of the Democrats from Wikipedia too?

West isn’t the Green Party candidate anymore. Keep with the times. Also I would prefer a candidate with a tax debt over one that sponsors a genocide In Palestinian. That might just be me.

Meanwhile Biden has made an election year plea to Trump supporters by effectively banning asylum seekers.

Nice attempt to distract from policy talk though.

As an American I wonder why I’m expected to choose between only two candidates, both of which are firmly supporting an active genocide and war crimes.

The two party system has been something pushed to limit our ability to choose candidates that represent our interests and only leaves ‘the lesser of two evils’ which means we are always voting for evil. The mentality is so bad here that as evidence in these forums if you don’t support the Democrats you are accused of being a Republican plant. The older generation especially only comprehend politics as a team sport, them or me.

Recent polling shows this system is unraveling with the younger generation and thank goodness for that. Biden won on the backs of the youth vote, then enacted the same policies Trump did while delivering on none of his campaign promises and expects the same young people to vote for him again. Meanwhile third parties are finding their largest base of support in decades. Republican youth are going libertarian, democrat youth are finding a plethora of candidates such as the Green Party or Cornel West that actually fight for what they want.

They refuse to hold their nose and take the bad medicine, instead opting for institutional change. They see a loss to Trump as probable but ultimately the only step to bucking the system. The democrats went all in on an out of touch candidate who promised the status quo, the status quo for the youth is poverty and a violent government more interested in bombing civilians on the other end of the globe than basic healthcare for its citizens.

I’m also holding out for the dark horse ‘both candidates die before November’ option as it’s legitimately possible with the poor health of both candidates.