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Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Feminist?

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Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Richard8


You're doing it again, you're branding me something that you've assumed me to be and acting on it with a knee jerk response.

Try taking a shot at my arguments.


I'm not assuming it. You're telling me you are that by what you say.

And I have taken shots at your arguments. But you want to hide behind my ad hominem attacks as if this were an actual debate and the moderator is going to take a point away from me. LOL
knottygirl
Active Ink Slinger
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Feminists don't believe in gender equality. They believe in female supremacy. So no, I'm not a feminist.
Dani
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by Richard8



Feminism today is a collectivist movement. I'm not going to elaborate, it's in my previous posts and with context.


Except it's not.

There is no context. Just lots of talking in circles and even fear mongering in regards to you mistaking being treated equal for being treated special.

You keep saying 'ignore the morons'.

I've said it before, when the same 'morons' we're meant to ignore are making laws and policies on our behalf, hiring, being members of admissions committees, or are otherwise integral to our livelihoods, how exactly do we go about avoiding/ignoring them?

You're advocating more for us to change when unequal systems need to change.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Dani
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by knottygirl
Feminists don't believe in gender equality. They believe in female supremacy. So no, I'm not a feminist.


I'm a feminist. I do not believe in female supremacy. I believe in gender equality.

Your mind has officially been blown.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Dryad
Active Ink Slinger
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When I posted this question I knew I wouldn't be disappointed by the level of ignorance that is being shown by some people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that, but equality is a right that everyone is entitled too no matter gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. That is what true feminism is all about.
joannemouse
Active Ink Slinger
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The feminism movement annoys me, picking on perceived slights rather than the bigger problems. I'm supposed to be offended when somebody calls me "love" but ignore, for example, the fate of women under sharia. I think that, since the big battles have been won, feminism has been thrashing around for something to do and ended up as man-bashers.

I'm an independent woman who earns more than her partner, owns the house we live in and runs her own business. I fight my corner in my working life and am fiercely professional. It can still be a problem getting through to some neanderthal men but it's their problem, not mine: I won't do business with them. Their loss. They are few and far between until you go abroad, and I do a lot of my work in connection with the Middle East and believe me, you need a feminist movement in the old style right there.
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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are there extremists in every and any movement? yes. do they define the movement? no. i would be content with being treated equally, my gender being a non-issue in any and everything i do. the truth is, i am often not. and i live in the US. in other countries, women cannot vote. they cannot drive. they are property. in some, women are stoned to death for being . for trying to get an education. for showing too much skin. now... can anyone really tell me there is no need for reforming those practices? please talk some reason into me. until you do, i'm going to identify myself as a feminist. do i hate men? no. do i think they are pigs? some are. so are some women. do i want special treatment because i'm a woman? no. i have never once asked for anything other than being treated as a human being equal, not better, than any other human being.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Guest
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To me being a feminist means that I demand respect for women in every sphere of life. In that sense I a feminist. But obviously, men and women can't be compared otherwise smile
domiKNITrix
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Passionate, outspoken feminists are referred to as "feminazis" because some people, for one, don't realize that gender equality in no way compares to the holocaust, and two, would rather those outspoken, passionate feminists not speak at all. It seems to be the sad reality.
I do consider myself to be a feminist. I'm still working on the outspoken part. It's a goal of mine since I've always been rather quiet and introverted.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by domiKNITrix
Passionate, outspoken feminists are referred to as "feminazis" because some people, for one, don't realize that gender equality in no way compares to the holocaust, and two, would rather those outspoken, passionate feminists not speak at all. It seems to be the sad reality.
I do consider myself to be a feminist. I'm still working on the outspoken part. It's a goal of mine since I've always been rather quiet and introverted.


This is a great reply to this subject. I'm not one to say what is a good reply or not on this subject. But in my opinion, this is a good one.

You should speak out more.
Guest
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Quote by Magical_felix


I made a point. It was about your fear and also about your misunderstanding of what feminism is.

I read your previous posts. You are just stating that it's a collectivist movement but you're not really saying why. You just say that feminists want special treatment for simply being women. Which isn't the case. Don't elaborate if you feel it will make you look stupid, that's understandable...but, a qualified woman wanting equal pay for doing the exact same thing as a man is not special treatment. It's by definition, equality. Be it working a drive through or driving a big rig. The same amount of work gets done, the pay should be equal, the opportunity for both sexes should be there to begin with. That is not collectivism. It's about human rights in general in a civilized society.


You've misunderstood me as attacking the idea of women's right; you've questioning how feminism is a collectivist movement. And then, you spoke of women's rights.... Since you haven't connected the dots correctly, let me restate my position: "'Feminism' is turning (and has turned for good measure) into a collectivist movement". Present continuous tense buddy. As far as 'how?' I have already hinted.

I don't wanna talk to you. You're too impolite.
Guest
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Quote by Magical_felix


I'm not assuming it. You're telling me you are that by what you say.

And I have taken shots at your arguments. But you want to hide behind my ad hominem attacks as if this were an actual debate and the moderator is going to take a point away from me. LOL


Don't try to cover your brutish impoliteness under 'ad hominem attack' and an 'LOL'. This is an actual debate. For all you know I could be playing devil's advocate! If you can't make your point without resorting to colourful phrases, why should I respond to you?

You fail to realize that impoliteness is a stone's throw away from the nasty and cheap. That's detrimental to the discussion and you're willing to risk that.

I'm not.
Guest
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Quote by Dani


Except it's not.

There is no context. Just lots of talking in circles and even fear mongering in regards to you mistaking being treated equal for being treated special.

You keep saying 'ignore the morons'.

I've said it before, when the same 'morons' we're meant to ignore are making laws and policies on our behalf, hiring, being members of admissions committees, or are otherwise integral to our livelihoods, how exactly do we go about avoiding/ignoring them?

You're advocating more for us to change when unequal systems need to change.



Firstly, in this entire thread, so many times, I've been assumed to oppose the idea of equality, simply because I've explicitly criticized feminism without being understood. I've been told that I'm being fearful of women. Is this sort of misrepresentation and hostility really arising out of an attitude that wants to eliminate injustice?

Secondly, right since the beginning the essence of my argument has been "feminism as it is today, isn't the answer, it's being just as misused as it is being used effectively. It is and has turned into something else." Instead of dealing with the problem at the grass root level i.e., by attacking the concept of irrational prejudice, the focus has shifted on to the victim.


You can step in to your comfort zone and say "there are feminist who only advocate equality and nothing else" but you're just choosing not see that there are so many that have misused the tenet of equality and drawn troublesome conclusions from it.

If you don't see how the feminist movement today is a collectivist one, you won't probably won't anymore. I've alluded to it before: "...False pride, un-earned self esteem, prejudice and a baseless sense of righteousness in this case, are to name a few. Then there's the superseding of the individual by a collective....." (to add a few more - generalization, hostility, skewed judgement and so on...)

I hope the next argument isn't going to be:'what's so bad about collectivism, especially if it gets the job done?'.

Moreover, the basics of ethics and morality aren't explicitly explained. Instead, 'feminism' sometimes meddles with the identity of an individual. A person is no longer having a position on women's rights, a person is either a feminist or isn't!

I repeat, if a stupid person, out of gender bias will not pay up, are you saying that people are now convinced that there are very few smart ones who would pay up equally?

I'm glad that at least one member's views overlaps with what I think makes sense- "It can still be a problem getting through to some neanderthal men but it's their problem, not mine: I won't do business with them. Their loss".

If everyone takes up that attitude, people will automatically and always measure an individual by merit and nothing else. Is today's feminism, achieving that? and that alone?

I don't know how many have actually read a bit up, but 'feminism' was originally a pure individualist movement.

It no longer is.
Guest
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Quote by joannemouse
The feminism movement annoys me, picking on perceived slights rather than the bigger problems. I'm supposed to be offended when somebody calls me "love" but ignore, for example, the fate of women under sharia. I think that, since the big battles have been won, feminism has been thrashing around for something to do and ended up as man-bashers.

I'm an independent woman who earns more than her partner, owns the house we live in and runs her own business. I fight my corner in my working life and am fiercely professional. It can still be a problem getting through to some neanderthal men but it's their problem, not mine: I won't do business with them. Their loss. They are few and far between until you go abroad, and I do a lot of my work in connection with the Middle East and believe me, you need a feminist movement in the old style right there.


My thoughts precisely.
Dani
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by Richard8



Firstly, in this entire thread, so many times, I've been assumed to oppose the idea of equality, simply because I've explicitly criticized feminism without being understood. I've been told that I'm being fearful of women. Is this sort of misrepresentation and hostility really arising out of an attitude that wants to eliminate injustice?

Secondly, right since the beginning the essence of my argument has been "feminism as it is today, isn't the answer, it's being just as misused as it is being used effectively. It is and has turned into something else." Instead of dealing with the problem at the grass root level i.e., by attacking the concept of irrational prejudice, the focus has shifted on to the victim.


You can step in to your comfort zone and say "there are feminist who only advocate equality and nothing else" but you're just choosing not see that there are so many that have misused the tenet of equality and drawn troublesome conclusions from it.

If you don't see how the feminist movement today is a collectivist one, you won't probably won't anymore. I've alluded to it before: "...False pride, un-earned self esteem, prejudice and a baseless sense of righteousness in this case, are to name a few. Then there's the superseding of the individual by a collective....." (to add a few more - generalization, hostility, skewed judgement and so on...)

I hope the next argument isn't going to be:'what's so bad about collectivism, especially if it gets the job done?'.

Moreover, the basics of ethics and morality aren't explicitly explained. Instead, 'feminism' sometimes meddles with the identity of an individual. A person is no longer having a position on women's rights, a person is either a feminist or isn't!

I repeat, if a stupid person, out of gender bias will not pay up, are you saying that people are now convinced that there are very few smart ones who would pay up equally?

I'm glad that at least one member's views overlaps with what I think makes sense- "It can still be a problem getting through to some neanderthal men but it's their problem, not mine: I won't do business with them. Their loss".

If everyone takes up that attitude, people will automatically and always measure an individual by merit and nothing else. Is today's feminism, achieving that? and that alone?

I don't know how many have actually read a bit up, but 'feminism' was originally a pure individualist movement.

It no longer is.


LOL.

You sat on this for a month and this is the best you could come up with?

'To hell with equality. Just refuse to associate with 'neanderthals' and pretend that they're not making up laws and policies on your behalf, on top of being responsible for hiring us and other things that are integral to our livelihoods.'

How exactly do you refuse to work with a moron in a robe and gavel presiding over your sexual harassment case? How do you refuse to work with the moron who just gave you the job you worked your ass off to get after 7 years of college in a competitive job market, only to be told that the insurance he provides doesn't cover birth control, but they also won't offer paid maternity leave?

How do you ignore a sexist moron when he's your state senator/governor or any other important representative/official?

Your ideologies are so small picture and narrow-minded, it's almost incomprehensible.

Once again you've talked in circles and arrived at nothing. Kudos.

Also, it's people who think like you that are the ultimate justification of why feminism needs to exist. So again, congratulations.

We're done here.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Guest
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I wasn't 'sitting on it for a month'. I had to be in the hospital looking after a loved one.

Your barely-held-back hostility is acknowledge.

My solutions are free of side-effects. They'll take time to work as well. But they won't have 'side-effects'.

As far as your labeling me and people like me as the reason for feminism to exists? I've nothing to learn from this thread. I've made my points, however implicit.

Cheerio.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Richard8


I don't wanna talk to you. You're too impolite.


I don't wanna talk to you either. You're too much of a lil bitch.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Richard8


I don't wanna talk to you. You're too impolite.


I don't want to talk to you either. You're too stup-...uh, I mean misguided.
Guest
Lurker
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You are hiding behind the rhetoric and sarcasm that you've made yourself experience by willfully being impolite in the face of my objection to it.

I bet you're the kind of guy who doesn't hesitate to make some noise or perhaps pick up a hockey stick to make a point to the folks in your life. Or at least that's what I've learnt from your responses to me here. And I really hope you're not secretly pleased to read this.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Richard8

You are hiding behind the rhetoric and sarcasm that you've made yourself experience by willfully being impolite in the face of my objection to it.

I bet you're the kind of guy who doesn't hesitate to make some noise or perhaps pick up a hockey stick to make a point to the folks in your life. Or at least that's what I've learnt from your responses to me here. And I really hope you're not secretly pleased to read this.



I'm openly pleased to read it actually.