Equal Rights

3 Nov 2013

Quote by sprite

so, it's better for the kids to get placed into the foster system?

No I'd rather see them in a home with a loving family in a society that accepts the fact that the parents are the same sex.
It's just my personal opinion.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by She

You are using quite strong word there, experiment, would you care to elaborate that a bit? And while you at it, would you mind explaining to me how exactly do you think society does chanege?

Unfotunately it can only be achieved by convincing ignorant and prejudiced biggots that there's no difference between a same sex couple and a hetero one.
That takes time.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by naughtynurse

Sometimes the worst prejudices come from within.

Please, this is totally beneath a person of your obvious intelligence and I think I deserve better.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by dpw

Please, this is totally beneath a person of your obvious intelligence and I think I deserve better.

I think you misunderstand me. Its easy to be critical of those you perceive as similar to yourself. Im harsh on other girls, particularly those who are not doing as i think they should. Why? Because I look at them and think well if I can do it, why cant they. I forget sometimes that everyone is an individual, and just because I can do something doesn't mean they can.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by naughtynurse

I think you misunderstand me. Its easy to be critical of those you perceive as similar to yourself. Im harsh on other girls, particularly those who are not doing as i think they should. Why? Because I look at them and think well if I can do it, why cant they. I forget sometimes that everyone is an individual, and just because I can do something doesn't mean they can.

Personally I will be so happy when it doesn't matter that a couple are the same sex. Then children won't even be aware that it's different in any way, it's part of the norm in society. Maybe I worry too much but they're just children and I hate the idea of them being bullied.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by naughtynurse

I think you misunderstand me. Its easy to be critical of those you perceive as similar to yourself. Im harsh on other girls, particularly those who are not doing as i think they should. Why? Because I look at them and think well if I can do it, why cant they. I forget sometimes that everyone is an individual, and just because I can do something doesn't mean they can.

You had to read the previous before this.
Well, well,well! I've been reading a study on this by Cambridge University and the results are looking good so far,the children are doing well but are a bit young to encounter bullying. So now I've stepped 1 or 2 paces across the bridge to agreement.

3 Nov 2013

Quote by dpw

Oh I'm very prejudiced!
I AM A GAY MAN!
I'v never stated ONCE that same sex couples don't make wonderful parents. Pleas read my posts I state quite clearly that it is society that is at fault, other children and often their parents are discriminatory and cruel.
If society isn't ready I am not in favour of a child being used as a guinea pig. If and when a study is done in the UK of the children that have been adopted by same sex couples and it shows that they didn't suffer from bullying or discrimination, then and only then will I be in favour of it! If it poves the opposite then I'd hope the law would be repealed, although I doubt that would happen.
Me! Prejudiced! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

You are prejudiced. It doesn't matter if you're a gay man. You have a prejudice. You won't let facts enlighten you. You harbor the belief that gay men can't raise children. That's a prejudice. Children don't have to be raised by gay men to suffer from bullying and discrimination you know. Kids being raised in foster homes, group homes and orphanages get plenty of that too. At least if a child has a home, there is a place safe from the bullies.

[url]http://[/url]

3 Nov 2013

Quote by Ruthie

You are prejudiced. It doesn't matter if you're a gay man. You have a prejudice. You won't let facts enlighten you. You harbor the belief that gay men can't raise children. That's a prejudice. Children don't have to be raised by gay men to suffer from bullying and discrimination you know. Kids being raised in foster homes, group homes and orphanages get plenty of that too. At least if a child has a home, there is a place safe from the bullies.

I find it amazing the number of people that throw out comments that show they either haven't read the thread or haven't understood a post. Nowhere in all my posts have I shown prejudice against gay men, show me! If you can't I will expect an apology or aren't you so quick at writing those?

4 Nov 2013

how about wars, and equal education to all children? there are many more issues ... like treating the differently abled people equally ... fighting for the equal rights of autistic people, saving nature by not cutting down the trees and planting more, reducing the factories in an around the populated area etc.,

4 Nov 2013

Quote by luci_fer
how about wars, and equal education to all children? there are many more issues ... like treating the differently abled people equally ... fighting for the equal rights of autistic people, saving nature by not cutting down the trees and planting more, reducing the factories in an around the populated area etc.,

I agree, there are lots of things to fight for, but if we do not fight for ourselves... who will?

4 Nov 2013

Quote by TonyZ

I agree, there are lots of things to fight for, but if we do not fight for ourselves... who will?

BATMAN WILL! *nods* i know cause he told me!

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

4 Nov 2013

Quote by sprite

BATMAN WILL! *nods* i know cause he told me!

Got to love your answers... you always make me laugh Big Hugs

4 Nov 2013

Quote by dpw
I find it amazing the number of people that throw out comments that show they either haven't read the thread or haven't understood a post. Nowhere in all my posts have I shown prejudice against gay men, show me! If you can't I will expect an apology or aren't you so quick at writing those?

You're right. You haven't shown prejudice against gay men, or women for that matter, when it comes to raising children. You don't harbor the belief that gay men can't raise children like Ruthie claims. She does make a very good point though, stating:

Quote by Ruthie
Children don't have to be raised by gay men to suffer from bullying and discrimination you know. Kids being raised in foster homes, group homes and orphanages get plenty of that too. At least if a child has a home, there is a place safe from the bullies.

Perhaps there's your prejudice. The believe that children will suffer more by bullying when raised by gays than by not being raised in a family at all.

=== Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER ===

4 Nov 2013

Quote by BiMale73

Perhaps there's your prejudice. The believe that children will suffer more by bullying when raised by gays than by not being raised in a family at all.

That is my concern, I realize that bullying is a problem in schools and children can be cruel. I just don't feel that I'd support a measure that may put children in a position where they may be more susseptible to being bullied. However I don't think that is prejudicial. My big problem is that it's really a chicken and egg situation.

4 Nov 2013

Quote by dpw

I find it amazing the number of people that throw out comments that show they either haven't read the thread or haven't understood a post. Nowhere in all my posts have I shown prejudice against gay men, show me! If you can't I will expect an apology or aren't you so quick at writing those?

This was my original statement on your prejudice.

Quote by me
I think you're carrying around a dangerous prejudice. You may be letting your personal feelings about gay men interfere with reason. If you are so prejudiced against gay men that you are unwilling to accept evidence that they make good parents, you don't really have an informed opinion, just a prejudice

I have seen nothing in any of your subsequent replies that makes me believe that you are not prejudiced. Do you even know what prejudiced means? You can be gay and be prejudiced against gay men. You have proven that with your remarks on their unsuitability as parents.

Your belief that gay men aren't fit to be parents isn't based on logic or evidence, but on your own feelings on the matter. Those feelings are prejudice. Studies show that your feelings are wrong, that actually gay men do make good parents. Children need to be adopted into loving homes, gay men can provide loving homes. The only reason you don't want them to adopt children is because they are gay.

That is prejudice. You are prejudiced. Try to overcome your prejudice rather than asking me to apologize for telling you the truth.

Your points that children raised by gay men are bullied in school don't hold water either. If only children raised by gay men were bullied in school, you might have a point, or if no children being raised by gay men were ever bullies, that might prove some sort of point, but it doesn't.

All sorts of couples and single parents have children who are bullies and children who are bullied. You are trying to force a link that just doesn't exist to make yourself feel better about your beliefs.

Your beliefs are wrong. They are hateful, and you need to get over them. Seek counseling, get into therapy, find out why you really have those feelings. And don't come back saying that I said you are hateful. I said your beliefs are hateful. Your beliefs are prejudiced.

Quote by dpw

With same sex parents there will always be a lack of maternal or paternal instincts, there is a lack of one type of role model for gender behaviour. Children learn this both consciously and subconsciously. There is an even greater problem if one of the children is the opposite sex to the parents, the parents have never experienced things that the child is.

Are there no women in your life? None of us live in a bubble. Children don't need a man and a woman in the home to learn gender behaviour. Did you learn to be gay? I certainly didn't learn to be a straight woman from my mother. There are all kinds of things that effect a child's gender identity, but being raised in a home with two sex same parents doesn't seem to be one of them.

There are studies that say you are wrong. You told Sprite that a hundred videos wouldn't change your mind. Do you not realize that that is because of your prejudice? You have an idea formed in your mind that is so deep that even facts and evidence can't change your mind. That is prejudice.

You posted my entire post, which included references to several studies that prove you wrong, but the only thing you wanted to talk about was that I called you prejudiced. You accuse me of not reading the thread, then absolutely refuse to respond to any evidence or offer any of your own. You only go back to your gut instincts which tell you that gay men shouldn't be raising children. You arm your self with reasons why, ignoring the fact that studies show you that your reasons are wrong, and you don't think that is prejudice?

What would you call it?

[url]http://[/url]

5 Nov 2013

Quote by Ruthie

Are there no women in your life? None of us live in a bubble. Children don't need a man and a woman in the home to learn gender behaviour. Did you learn to be gay? I certainly didn't learn to be a straight woman from my mother. There are all kinds of things that effect a child's gender identity, but being raised in a home with two sex same parents doesn't seem to be one of them.

There are studies that say you are wrong. You told Sprite that a hundred videos wouldn't change your mind. Do you not realize that that is because of your prejudice? You have an idea formed in your mind that is so deep that even facts and evidence can't change your mind. That is prejudice.

You posted my entire post, which included references to several studies that prove you wrong, but the only thing you wanted to talk about was that I called you prejudiced. You accuse me of not reading the thread, then absolutely refuse to respond to any evidence or offer any of your own. You only go back to your gut instincts which tell you that gay men shouldn't be raising children. You arm your self with reasons why, ignoring the fact that studies show you that your reasons are wrong, and you don't think that is prejudice?

What would you call it?

1. Quote me where I state gay men aren't fit to be parents.
2. I have never said that the children are/will be bullied, I have said that it may put them in a position that might lead to bullying, a concern raised by the ongoing study by Cambridge University which reported earlier this year. Which by the way is the FIRST such study in the world of children adopted couples.
3. The American studies are theoretical not based on "gay adoption"
4. Surely you should be asking were there no men in my life?
5. Gender is not the same as orientation
6. Why have you got this thing about gay men? You chose to single them out before you knew I was gay.
7. Personally if anyone needs counselling (note the spelling) it's surely you. The vitriol is palpable, you need help.

Just so you actually stand on the subject:
I am not against adoption by same sex couples but I am unsure of societies willingness to accept them. If that is the case then the children MIGHT be placed in a position where there is an increased risk of bullying or prejudice. My primary concern is the children not the same sex couples or any of the LBGT organisations that want to get the credit. The study British study is very promising but the children are all pre school and the researchers think if problems occur they are going to be when they are a bit older.
Do feel free to comment.

5 Nov 2013

Quote by dpw

1. Quote me where I state gay men aren't fit to be parents.
2. I have never said that the children are/will be bullied, I have said that it may put them in a position that might lead to bullying, a concern raised by the ongoing study by Cambridge University which reported earlier this year. Which by the way is the FIRST such study in the world of children adopted couples.
3. The American studies are theoretical not based on "gay adoption"
4. Surely you should be asking were there no men in my life?
5. Gender is not the same as orientation
6. Why have you got this thing about gay men? You chose to single them out before you knew I was gay.
7. Personally if anyone needs counselling (note the spelling) it's surely you. The vitriol is palpable, you need help.

1. You have intimated throughout this discussion that you don't believe gay men should be allowed to adopt children. If you thought that they would make fit parents, you wouldn't be so dead set against them adopting.

2. Once again, you have intimated that children raised by same sex parents would be bullied. If you don't think that they'd be bullied, what is your argument?

3. The studies were done using couples who are actual real life human beings who have adopted children. There are plenty of studies if you want to search them out. I'm not doing any more work for you because you are determined not to let any of the studies change your ming.

4. I asked if there were no women in your life because you insist that a child raised in a two male household can't have any feminine influences. Do you think all gay men live in a womanless bubble? If you had a child, don't you have women friends who would influence their lives?

5. What does that have to do with anything?

6. You didn't just appear on this thread. You've been her awhile. I read the forums, I look at people's profiles, I have known you were gay for quite awhile. You haven't been trying to keep it a secret. How could I not have known you were gay is a better question. I'm not going back and look for every reference you have made to being a gay man, but this is from your profile page:

Name:
Derek
Date Joined:
15 Sep 2013
Last Visit:
04 Nov 2013 (1 hour ago)
Sex:
Male
Age:
59
Sign:
Scorpio
Relationship Status:
Single
Orientation
Gay
Location:
Merseyside, United Kingdom

It's right there under Orientation.

7. Nothing I have said to you is personal. Don't think that it is. This thread isn't about you either, it's about children who need homes who are being blocked from adoption by people like you, both gay and straight.

Stop attacking me and do something useful.

[url]http://[/url]

5 Nov 2013

kids are bullied for many reasons. their parents are gay is one of them. they have red hair is another. they are fat, they are thin, they have a high voice, they are short, they are tall, they have a lisp, they read, they play an instrument, they are good at math, because they are pretty, because they are ugly, because a teacher likes them, etc. bullies don't bully kids because their parents are gay. they bully them because they are bullies and simply pick a reason, any reason, to do so. that's just how it is.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

5 Nov 2013

Quote by TonyZ

Got to love your answers... you always make me laugh

don't laugh at batman, he will KICK your ass. *nods*

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

5 Nov 2013

Quote by sprite

don't laugh at batman, he will KICK your ass. *nods*

That's not Batman... Batman is gay and he may do lots of things to my ass, but kick it is not one of them... LMAO!

6 Nov 2013

Quote by TonyZ

I agree, there are lots of things to fight for, but if we do not fight for ourselves... who will?

who says we are not fighting for ourselves? smile

we are and that's why we live here! if we fight for ourselves, we fight for others; we should know deeply what we want and that'll be for others too. Its that we should understand others and treat others how we expect others should treat us :)