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Stories Versus Poems
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Quote by Buddybear
Did I stir up a fire ant nest? Good golly, it seems I did.
If ("IF!") poems and stories were written on a common basis, or judged on a common basis, then my suggestion to separate the scoring (and scoring ONLY) of poems and stories would be bogus.
1. They are not written on a common basis. The stories (almost universally) have a strong sexual and/or erotic content. Poems often don't. They do typically relate to romance, foreplay, anticipation of heavy breathing soon to take place. But how in heck can you even compare... say... Dancing_Doll's "Stacey's Confession" with Top_This' "A Different Place"? They are both outstanding in their own right. But they are such different genres that you have no common basis for comparing them. Which one is the best "story"? Surely the former, because the latter is not technically a "story" at all. Perhaps a vignette of a scene out of a story.
2. They are not judged on a common basis. I seem to notice that when a poem is even moderately good, it gets 5's straight up. But even the very best written (or the most erotic) stories often get 3-bombed enough so that they drop off the Best 10 chart. Readers expect a story to turn them on to some degree. If it doesn't, WHAM, a 3. Poems are not judged that way. I had one of my best scoring stories, given a 3 and a rambling comment on how the sexual relationship wasn't "logical" and was only "make-believe". Godfrey Daniel! ALL my stories are make-believe! But you NEVER see poems 3-bombed and commented that the plausibility of the metaphor between a mud geyser and male ejaculation was tarnished by the choice of Trochaic rhythm scheme and the lack of rhyming. Sweet Mother of Pearl!
So poems collect nearly all 5's and even the best stories rarely manage to avoid 3-bombs. It's not an even playing field.
How are you going to have a common voting system when your readers are from this site and from all walks of life with different interests? Maybe it's because your competitors are 3-bombing you to get your stories down. If you want to be in the top picks you need to advertise more.
I've seen people tweet their stories, post on facebook,put story banners in their forum posts,email their entire friend list when they have a new story up and put it in their status. Or troll for new fans in the chat room. I've seen stories which don't deserve to be so high in score just because they are in a certain categories.
Wild at Heart
Poems and stories are differnt things. To me it's like when car magazines rank the top ten trucks of the year and the top ten cars of the year. They do different things so they are judged differently so there are TWO top ten lists.
Do you guys get turned on from the poetry in the same way that you do from stories? I don't. I'm not saying the poetry isn't good. I'm saying they are different things and there should be two lists. I dont see the problem with that. If I was a poet I would like it if there was poetry pics every month. If they had their own list then this would be the case.
You don't need a new moderator for a dumb list do you? Its just a list that could be right by the list now but it could say.. Top poetry pics for February... What is the big deal with that?
Do you guys get turned on from the poetry in the same way that you do from stories? I don't. I'm not saying the poetry isn't good. I'm saying they are different things and there should be two lists. I dont see the problem with that. If I was a poet I would like it if there was poetry pics every month. If they had their own list then this would be the case.
You don't need a new moderator for a dumb list do you? Its just a list that could be right by the list now but it could say.. Top poetry pics for February... What is the big deal with that?
Alpha Blonde
Quote by SheQuote by Dancing_Doll
Nobody is talking about removing poems or throwing them into the basement.
The discussion is about two Top Ten lists or even a 5/5 split within a single Top Ten list.
That way poems and stories have equal standings on this site.
People are becoming overly sensitive to a discussion that is only being aimed at maintaining fair representation for both poets and authors.
I just don't get it why it bugs all of you so much, as I said and strongly believe it, it is just a faze when people are reading poetry more.
Nobody seems to be complaining when there was not even one poem between Story Pics, be patiane, it will past, LOL
And if you mean with, people becoming overy sensitive, me.. I can assure you that I am not sensitive nor took this whole thing personaly.
I'm just talking about people in general with that statement.
But the reality is that it's not more people reading poems. If you look at the views, there is no comparison between poems and stories. It's just about scores. If the system was re-arranged to look at quantity of votes or views into account instead of eight people voting a perfect 5 for a poem and having it hit the Top Picks, then I'm sure poets would feel disgruntled that they never have an honest chance of hitting the list. And that wouldn't be a fair system either.
And it's not anything directed at the poets currently in the Top Ten this month not deserving to be there. This has been brewing among people for several months but has been kept to private PM until this thread started. This is just an opportunity to voice ideas/opinions on what would make this a fair system for everyone... not about suggesting the people in the top ten don't deserve to be there. I didn't write anything last month, so I have no personal investment in the discussion, nor do I have any illusions about making that list next month either regardless of what happens to the system... but I do legitimately like to see what's "hot" for the month, and think that stories are consistently under-represented.
Purveyor of Poetry & Porn
Quote by Buddybear
So poems collect nearly all 5's and even the best stories rarely manage to avoid 3-bombs. It's not an even playing field.
Just curious B-bear...are you suggesting that poems somehow avoid getting 3-bombs???
As someone on here who has posted quite a few stories and poems in the last couple of years, I can assure you that is not the case...
You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories
Artistic Tart
Quote by Loislane
How are you going to have a common voting system when your readers are from this site and from all walks of life with different interests? Maybe it's because your competitors are 3-bombing you to get your stories down. If you want to be in the top picks you need to advertise more.
Advertising is a salt-lick for 3-bombers. Just saying. I really feel like those that say nothing, post nothing, chat never...have a far better shot at avoiding vote-sabotage than anyone else.
Wild at Heart
Quote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
Yeah, but only if we go to a place that serves drinks.
Quote by Magical_felixQuote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
Yeah, but only if we go to a place that serves drinks.
You can pick the venue. I don't care what it is but we will make sure they serve drinks.
Thousands of user submitted stories removed from the site. You are nothing without your users or their freely submitted stories.
Purveyor of Poetry & Porn
Quote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
You buying??? I might be available...
You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories
Wild at Heart
Quote by JilliciousQuote by Magical_felixQuote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
Yeah, but only if we go to a place that serves drinks.
You can pick the venue. I don't care what it is but we will make sure they serve drinks.
I'm thinking tapas bar... Have a couple sangrias..
Quote by Jebru
I have had a story rejected in the past with the explanation that even love stories must have a sexual component, and yet the poems don't seem to need that. What I was trying to say is keep the poetry category, and yes, the love story category too, but since this is an erotic site, make them have an erotic component. Otherwise they can be posted on the non-erotic version of the site.
All right, all of this thread is becoming complicated, but as far as what you stated and I outlined in bold face is concerned, I am going to say this.
Since I have been here and moderating stories, those that are in the Love Stories category are accepted as being love stories. IF there is an erotic or sexual element to them, then so much the better. There often is an erotic element, or a straightforward sexual content, but that is not always the case, and a good story will indeed be accepted. I do not know who removed your story, or when it was, so I cannot deal with that aspect of your post.
The category for poetry is LOVE Poetry. Love is an essential element in it, and in that case, I have often seen and even verified poems that are about sex and no love is involved. I think in that case the conditions are more than fulfilled, and the Moderators, myself and the others, have been more than obliging to accomodate the subject matter, and have the poems appear on the site. At the same time, I've wondered if such a poem should be accepted and published here. Yet it is, so the inverse is valid; poems that are about sentiments and the human heart are accepted if they meet the standards and don't break the rules.
If you want to get shirty about it, how about all the broken hearted, sad, desctructive and lamenting poetry? Love lost? Love destroyed? Love frustrated? Former erotic and sexual loves, woe betiding, and general gloom and doom? Because there is a lot of stuff that never ever hits the front page, both in love stories, love poems, and stories in general. And that is because Lush has a team of Moderators that read everything and sift and sort through it all.
So cut us some slack, and trust us, please. We actually do know what we are doing.
Wild at Heart
Quote by DirtyMartiniQuote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
You buying??? I might be available...
Actually, I was hoping you would buy for the three of us martini... I mean you're published yeah?
Wild at Heart
Quote by She
All should be good old competition and it should bring best in writers. But some just cannot handle it?
I'm starting to think you are just not understanding she..
Poems=apples
Stories=oranges
Top ten oranges of the month list
Top ten apples of the month list
The story writers want this why don't the poetry writers want it? Why!?
Her Royal Spriteness
IF IF IF! the top 10 list is being used as an incentive to get people interested in reading SMUT or joining an EROTIC story sight, then really, it's giving a very skewed idea of what they are going to find here, and omg, i SO write a bit of poetry myself, and i don't think that it should be eliminated from the top 10, but it DOES make sense to give it a seperate catagory, so that people looking for high quality SMUT can find it - also, the issue with Poetry, and i fall into this trap as well, is that it's usually pretty personal, and i have a hard time giving it a lower score cause it is more likely to be taken personally...
Oh, for the record, from now on, I will be rating my OWN stories, giving them all 1’s, the explanation being that hey, pretty much the rest of the feed back I’m given will be honest, rather then an attempt to knock me out of a spot in the top 10 I have NO chance of getting, also, from now on, IF I give something a 5, it better be fucking perfect, anything else gets a 4 or a 3 – really, if you think about it, 4 is pretty damn good, but scores here HAVE become inflated, because, lets be honest, not ALL of them are based on reality, some of them are based on popularity or who has the most friends, or who can work the system better,.
Ok, a word about this site in general – it’s my sole site for posting stories, the mods make it easy, painless, do a good fucking job, and I KNOW that none of the obvious frustration here is aimed at them or the site, it’s just a frustration, as Doll said, that has been brewing for a while behind the curtains, caused by someone taking weeks to craft a work of erotic art and to find themselves suddenly lost because 10 others have sat down and written heart touching 8 lines of really lovely love poems that afternoon – I just think, like others, that the two are separate beasts, you got your dogs, you got your cats, give them a separate pen to play in – spotlight your budding Keats and Shellys and ee cummings fairly, AND spot light your Steinbecks and Rands just as fairly…
AS example, one of my low scores on a poem was accompanied by a comment along the line of : I wanted something to get off to, and this was bullshit – and I LEFT it there, cause he was right! I think that, readers have a right to go into the top ten and expect that the story there will be something that will leave them tittalated, Or if they want to be moved, they can dwelve into the poetry top 10 and KNOW what they will find there! No confusion! It’s NOT just about the writers, it’s about the BASE here, which is probably 90% non writers/reader to 10% writers – if I’m going to sign on to an erotic story sight, I want some erotica, and I probably don’t want to spend TOO much time or effort to find it.
Ok, damnit it, I couldn’t let this go and yes, you are allowed to disagree with me but if you do you are WRONG! *giggles*
Ps – despite being quite drunk, I stand behind every single word I wrote, even word #21 in the third paragraph!
Oh, for the record, from now on, I will be rating my OWN stories, giving them all 1’s, the explanation being that hey, pretty much the rest of the feed back I’m given will be honest, rather then an attempt to knock me out of a spot in the top 10 I have NO chance of getting, also, from now on, IF I give something a 5, it better be fucking perfect, anything else gets a 4 or a 3 – really, if you think about it, 4 is pretty damn good, but scores here HAVE become inflated, because, lets be honest, not ALL of them are based on reality, some of them are based on popularity or who has the most friends, or who can work the system better,.
Ok, a word about this site in general – it’s my sole site for posting stories, the mods make it easy, painless, do a good fucking job, and I KNOW that none of the obvious frustration here is aimed at them or the site, it’s just a frustration, as Doll said, that has been brewing for a while behind the curtains, caused by someone taking weeks to craft a work of erotic art and to find themselves suddenly lost because 10 others have sat down and written heart touching 8 lines of really lovely love poems that afternoon – I just think, like others, that the two are separate beasts, you got your dogs, you got your cats, give them a separate pen to play in – spotlight your budding Keats and Shellys and ee cummings fairly, AND spot light your Steinbecks and Rands just as fairly…
AS example, one of my low scores on a poem was accompanied by a comment along the line of : I wanted something to get off to, and this was bullshit – and I LEFT it there, cause he was right! I think that, readers have a right to go into the top ten and expect that the story there will be something that will leave them tittalated, Or if they want to be moved, they can dwelve into the poetry top 10 and KNOW what they will find there! No confusion! It’s NOT just about the writers, it’s about the BASE here, which is probably 90% non writers/reader to 10% writers – if I’m going to sign on to an erotic story sight, I want some erotica, and I probably don’t want to spend TOO much time or effort to find it.
Ok, damnit it, I couldn’t let this go and yes, you are allowed to disagree with me but if you do you are WRONG! *giggles*
Ps – despite being quite drunk, I stand behind every single word I wrote, even word #21 in the third paragraph!
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Magical_felix
Do you guys get turned on from the poetry in the same way that you do from stories? I don't. I'm not saying the poetry isn't good. I'm saying they are different things and there should be two lists. I dont see the problem with that. If I was a poet I would like it if there was poetry pics every month. If they had their own list then this would be the case.
I don't know about anyone else, but me if a guy opened his heart and soul and wrote a romantic poem for me, I would be pinning him down and riding him high and dry.
If a guy wrote me a story like from here - I would probably be rolling my eyes at his "16 inch cock" story and killing myself laughing at him.
I agree with Loislane. What next? Take away fetish stories from the top list because people don't find them wankable? I have not been told once that my stories are erotic or wankable, funny yes, but not erotic. So do they belong in the top list? Maybe we should then discuss whether we should have a list for top love stories and then a top list and top list etc.
We should all be thankful that Lush provides us with a VARIETY of stories and that is including poems otherwise we would not have the number of members as we do and I may be shot down by this but a poet deserves to be on the top list as any other author. Just keep in mind - Different
for different 
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems the majority of people here complaining about the top list, are the same ones that have also been flooding the site improvement thread recently with wanting to change the voting system to get better results. I suggest, take all this passion you have about 'fairness' and start writing an amazing story and then you will see yourself on the top list.
's, more erotic than a 16" penis 
Artistic Tart
Quote by Fugly
I agree with Loislane. What next? Take away fetish stories from the top list because people don't find them wankable? I have not been told once that my stories are erotic or wankable, funny yes, but not erotic. So do they belong in the top list? Maybe we should then discuss whether we should have a list for top love stories and then a top list and top list etc.
I don't have any idea how a slippery-slope argument applies to a discussion of rating poems separately. The system is being discussed and suddenly people think that one adjustment will lead to all hell breaking loose. Overreaction only clouds the issue.
For all I know, Nicola is simultaneously posting, telling us all to deal, that it 'is what it is', but as far as discussion is concerned, nobody's witch-hunting poems or categories.
Wild at Heart
Quote by FuglyQuote by Magical_felix
Do you guys get turned on from the poetry in the same way that you do from stories? I don't. I'm not saying the poetry isn't good. I'm saying they are different things and there should be two lists. I dont see the problem with that. If I was a poet I would like it if there was poetry pics every month. If they had their own list then this would be the case.
I don't know about anyone else, but me if a guy opened his heart and soul and wrote a romantic poem for me, I would be pinning him down and riding him high and dry.
If a guy wrote me a story like from here - I would probably be rolling my eyes at his "16 inch cock" story and killing myself laughing at him.
I agree with Loislane. What next? Take away fetish stories from the top list because people don't find them wankable? I have not been told once that my stories are erotic or wankable, funny yes, but not erotic. So do they belong in the top list? Maybe we should then discuss whether we should have a list for top love stories and then a top list and top list etc.
We should all be thankful that Lush provides us with a VARIETY of stories and that is including poems otherwise we would not have the number of members as we do and I may be shot down by this but a poet deserves to be on the top list as any other author. Just keep in mind - Different
So the poetry I wrote you fugs all those months ago, if I got 7 of my friends to give me fives deserves to be in the top ten alongside say... Dancing_doll's latest epic?
And if you're wondering I'm not fucking around. I really did write fugs some poetry...
Matriarch
Concerning Love Stories, Gypsy is absolutely correct, they do not need to contain sex. Read the category definition again if it is not understood.
I agree that poems do often get over-represented in the top list. There aren't that many members who submit them, and those that do, seem to understand the best ways to get them seen / voted on.
The top picks are worked out programmatically, regardless of subject matter.
The solution to have a top list for poems might be the answer - but then that may open another can of worms, people thinking that gives poets more attention than story writers. Perhaps a separate top 5 list for those?
Or we remove the top lists totally
Feedback appreciated.
I agree that poems do often get over-represented in the top list. There aren't that many members who submit them, and those that do, seem to understand the best ways to get them seen / voted on.
The top picks are worked out programmatically, regardless of subject matter.
The solution to have a top list for poems might be the answer - but then that may open another can of worms, people thinking that gives poets more attention than story writers. Perhaps a separate top 5 list for those?
Or we remove the top lists totally
Feedback appreciated.
Alpha Blonde
Quote by nicola
The solution to have a top list for poems might be the answer - but then that may open another can of worms, people thinking that gives poets more attention than story writers. Perhaps a separate top 5 list for those?
This one gets my vote.
Active Ink Slinger
A separate top 5 list for poems sounds fine. Alternatively, we can keep the current top 10 list, but program it so that poems only take up X amount of the slots.
Artistic Tart
I think a separate, equal list is better than doctoring the main list to automatically quota and limit a certain number of poems.
Matriarch
Quote by SweetPenny
A separate top 5 list for poems sounds fine. Alternatively, we can keep the current top 10 list, but program it so that poems only take up X amount of the slots.
I thought about that too, but if we limited it to say 2 poems, then what happens when 5 milf stories are in the top 10, will the poets start complaining it's unfair?
Wild at Heart
Top 5 is way fucked up nicola Hahahaha.
Just have two 'separate but equal lists.'
That's my vote anyway.
Just have two 'separate but equal lists.'
That's my vote anyway.
Active Ink Slinger
I haven't published anything (yet). I am however someone who reads/votes and comments (most of the time).
I am sooooo guilty of giving a "5", when I really wanted to give a 3 or 4.
I have never wanted to give a "story" a 3 ... but some poems yes. I have wanted to give a 2 before to a poem, but didn't. I just didn't score it. I would think that 2 would have better then 0 though, yeah?
I have noticed some writtings that get way higher scores due to someone like me. Friends vote hight regardless it seems. If you look at the comments left, it's usually a friend .. not necessary a follower. I'm not generalizing, I just saying on some. *I STAND GUILTY AS CHARGED.*
I will tell you this .. I will not leave a comment or score anymore unless I think it is of 5 quality.
The reason for this, is because of all I have read about "3" scores.
It is so out of my character *to not* give an honest vote.
I am known for being brutely honest, and giving constructive critisim, even when not asked.
Why wouldn't the authors of both poems and stories want an honest vote?
Oh .. and I think it's a good idea to separate the two. (see how I ramble on .. geeeezus)
I am sooooo guilty of giving a "5", when I really wanted to give a 3 or 4.
I have never wanted to give a "story" a 3 ... but some poems yes. I have wanted to give a 2 before to a poem, but didn't. I just didn't score it. I would think that 2 would have better then 0 though, yeah?
I have noticed some writtings that get way higher scores due to someone like me. Friends vote hight regardless it seems. If you look at the comments left, it's usually a friend .. not necessary a follower. I'm not generalizing, I just saying on some. *I STAND GUILTY AS CHARGED.*
I will tell you this .. I will not leave a comment or score anymore unless I think it is of 5 quality.
The reason for this, is because of all I have read about "3" scores.
It is so out of my character *to not* give an honest vote.
I am known for being brutely honest, and giving constructive critisim, even when not asked.
Why wouldn't the authors of both poems and stories want an honest vote?
Oh .. and I think it's a good idea to separate the two. (see how I ramble on .. geeeezus)
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Magical_felix
And if you're wondering I'm not fucking around. I really did write fugs some poetry...
and I went through a 10 pack of double a's batteries that day.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Jillicious
Is there anyone who would like to go out to lunch? I'm hungry.
Me too. Is Chinese okay with you?
You've been a bad girl! Now take your pajamas off and go to my room!
Matriarch
Quote by LadyX
I think a separate, equal list is better than doctoring the main list to automatically quota and limit a certain number of poems.
We are primarily an erotic story site. Love poems make up around 900 submissions, out of our total 11500 or so to date. That's less than 10%. Giving them their own Top 10 seems like overkill to me.
Artistic Tart
Quote by nicola
We are primarily an erotic story site. Love poems make up around 900 submissions, out of our total 11500 or so to date. That's less than 10%. Giving them their own Top 10 seems like overkill to me.
As do the conditions now, which caused this whole conversation to happen.
and.....I'm done.