Federal Debt Ceiling

The debt ceiling is non-negotiable, always has been. It should not become a political tool that a small collection of ignorant Republicans use to flash their peacock feathers. When are to we to going to establish some modicum of political decorum in our politics and restrain the radical right and left? Trump was not the start of all this but he did bring the sleazy side of politics to a level it has never been and the vast majority of spineless Republicans either followed him or did not have the political courage to contest him. Our elected officials have become pathetic puppets to a constituency that elevates conspiracy to an art based on reactionary dribble.

The debt ceiling limit should already have a prioritized critical list for our national security and growth. The discussion and agreements, hopefully, will be based on this, and all other issues set aside.

Quote by ElCoco

I think the debt limit doesn't have anything to do with any program. It's just the limit on how much the federal government can borrow.

I’m not suggesting it has to be associated with any program, I think it should be correlated to national needs and the cost of them.

Quote by Icarus4

When are to we to going to establish some modicum of political decorum in our politics and restrain the radical right and left?

I have a pretty clear image of the radical right in US politics. Radical left not so much. Can you point me to US radical left politics?

Quote by Tantaleyes

"National needs" change whenever control of the White House or either chamber of Congress changes.

To some degree, yes they do, but significant input comes from the National Command Authorities and the national Security Council… not any small group of people determining everything.

Quote by Chryses

Neither group votes to increase the Federal Debt limit.

I didn’t say they voted

Look, this is all about a small group of Republicans who want to demonstrate how much they hate my half of American Society and think it worthwhile to take the whole society hostage just to prove their devotion the 'cause' of hate. It's bullshit. There is never a problem passing a debt ceiling increase unless you have Republican control of one house, and in this case a Speaker so weak and spineless he's will to wreck the whole country in order to retain his title. Donad Trump added over $7 to the national debt but always got his increases simply because the Democratic Party consists by and large of adults who realize they have a duty.

And please don't tell me conservatives care about the debt. They've never cared about fiscal responsibility a single day of their entire lives. If you doubt that look at the deficit records between Republican and Democratic Presidents. They go down (or away) under Democratic Presidents then shoot back up the moment a so-called 'conservative' takes office. No, what Republicans care about is cutting taxes for rich people and using the deficits they created in order to remove any program that actually benefits the average person. That's the plain truth, and there's no denying it. Except some of them are still denying the election.

Quote by Chryses

It is past time for the United States to come to terms with the Federal Debt. The Greek government-debt crisis in 2009 is a warning of what can happen when government debt becomes unmanageable.

Greece faced a sovereign debt crisis in the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007–2008. Widely known in the country as The Crisis (Greek: Η Κρίση, romanized: I Krísi), it reached the populace as a series of sudden reforms and austerity measures that led to impoverishment and loss of income and property, as well as a small-scale humanitarian crisis. In all, the Greek economy suffered the longest recession of any advanced mixed economy to date. As a result, the Greek political system has been upended, social exclusion increased, and hundreds of thousands of well-educated Greeks have left the country.

 

Only a fool will say that cannot happen here.

Greece is part of the eurozone and their situation was becoming a danger to other member states, who demanded harsh reforms in return for additional loans. This made the situation worse for the population.

The US is in no way in a similar position as Greece was. A government-debt crisis may happen, but what external party will demand such reforms of the US? None.
Sure, if the US economy goes down the drain, it'll take down a lot of other countries with it as well. But unlike in the case of Greece, those other countries will have no instruments to control that the US goes down in a way that will least hurt them. So they'll have every reason to keep the US from going down instead.

Quote by Chryses

Interesting, possibly true, and irrelevant to the fact that the U.S. could also experience a sovereign debt crisis.

LOL, the Greek debt crisis is indeed mostly irrelevant to the possibility of a US debt crisis. And yet you brought it up.

Quote by Chryses

You remain mistaken, for it is an example of a sovereign debt crisis that could occur o the U.S., for as you said, "A government-debt crisis may happen".

What is irrelevant was comments such as, "Sure, if the US economy goes down the drain, it'll take down a lot of other countries with it as well.", "Greece is part of the eurozone and their situation was becoming a danger to other member states", and "This made the situation worse for the population".

Why do you use a picture of Bill Barr as your avatar?

Quote by Magical_felix

Why do you use a picture of Bill Barr as your avatar?

Not relevant. Please stick to the topic.

Quote by Chryses

You remain mistaken, for it is an example of a sovereign debt crisis that could occur o the U.S., for as you said, "A government-debt crisis may happen".

What is irrelevant was comments such as, "Sure, if the US economy goes down the drain, it'll take down a lot of other countries with it as well.", "Greece is part of the eurozone and their situation was becoming a danger to other member states", and "This made the situation worse for the population".

The comments are relevant to the Greek situation. The fact that they are irrelevant to a possible US debt crisis is precisely because your Greek example is irrelevant to a possible US debt crisis.

Quote by Chryses

As your comment is obviously off-topic, I will not respond to it here, but if you are interested in pursuing this, we can discuss it offline.

Chryses, I thought maybe it was like some kind of clever thing you were doing. No need to threaten me with your "let's take this outside, pal" attitude. I was just curious geez

Quote by Chryses

Offline or not at all.

How? Like am I supposed to send you a paper letter asking you why you use Bill Barr as your avatar?

Quote by Chryses

Thank you for confirming those comments of yours were irrelevant to a possible U.S. sovereign debt crisis.

You are, of course, entitled to state that one sovereign debt crisis is irrelevant to another. As one (Greek) was a sovereign debt crisis, and the other (U.S.) could be a sovereign debt crisis, I think it reasonable for you to explain why the first is irrelevant to the possible other.

That's precisely what I did.

Quote by Chryses

If you are unable to communicate with me outside of these public forums, you will be unable to get a response to your off-topic question(s).

Ok so that would still be online, but not in the forum. Got it.

Quote by Chryses

You remain mistaken. You stated it as a fact, without warranting your claim.

For example, the Greek crisis occurred when the government found it impossible to finance its debt. Why could that not happen to the U.S.?

Duh, "impossible to finance its debt" is what a debt crisis is. That doesn't mean that the Greek crisis is an example for what a US debt crisis will look like. It's like saying MLK was similar to Hitler because they were both men with staches, who mobilized the masses.

Quote by Chryses

You did not respond to my question.

If the U.S. federal government finds itself in the future in a position (for whatever reason) where it cannot finance its debt, it would be in a situation similar to that of the Greek government in 2009.

As such, the Greek sovereign debt crisis is relevant to and serves as a warning for a possible U.S. sovereign debt crisis.

I responded in the way that seemed most fitting. Your question made no sense given what I've stated earlier.

Quote by Chryses

So, no warrant for your claim the Greek sovereign debt crisis provides no lesson to be learned for another country's possible sovereign debt crisis. Perhaps tomorrow you will have one.

seems to me that he already posted such. trolling again, i see.

The difference between the parties is confusion (stupidity) on behalf of the Republicans between debt financing and issues to be negotiated within the budget. Quite frankly I have been completely disillusioned by the idiotic posturing of both parties for quite some time. The fringe populations of both parties are complete fledglings in terms of the workings and responsibilities of government.

Here it comes - holding the debt ceiling negotiations hostage, while demanding Boomers and others to jump through additional very difficult hoops, just to finally collect on their Social Security/Medicare benefits which THEY HAVE ALREADY paid for in the preceeding 30-40 years of their working life.

All while cutting corporate and individual taxes with EVERY Republican administration since Reagan.

Cut those other revenue streams, then bitch and moan about Selfish Useless Eaters who want their Social Security and Medicare - make it a point of contention to always tell Americans how Social Security cannot survive, how Medicare shouldn't be used for anyone.

https://www.rawstory.com/mccarthy-demands-work-requirements-on-all-the-programs-including-social-security-medicare-medicaid-and-snap/

Drown that Entitlement Crowd in the bathtub!

Quote by Chryses

Then perhaps you can answer the question noll has not: Why cannot one set member provide helpful information about another set member? That is what he has claimed and failed to warrant.

chuckles

Quote by Chryses

Then perhaps you can answer the question noll has not: Why cannot one set member provide helpful information about another set member? That is what he has claimed and failed to warrant.

why would i be answering for Noll? he can answer for himself. i mean, you really want me to start answering for other members here? not going to like when i start answering for you, i guarantee it lol

and, that said, everyone please stay on topic, thanks.

Quote by Chryses

There will be no default. As everyone knows, Treasury receives more than ten billion dollars daily in tax revenue. So there will be plenty of money to service the debts as they come due. A failure to raise the borrowing limit means that Treasury will be unable to issue new debt in excess of the current limit. That is a luxury Greece didn't have.

True, when you have states like California with a nearly 4 dollar economy, a lot of taxes are produced.

GQP wants a cultural bloodbath, they've reached one of their goals. We shall see how the Republicans plan to protect Social Security, Medicare-Medicaid, food stamps and SNAP.

I bet they try to cut the Billionaires another tax cut too.

Both sides are just rattling sabres. This debt ceiling scenario is so often used by both parties that many do not take it seriously.

But, we will see...

Quote by Tantaleyes

My mom and dad count on his Social Security deposit.

This is Republican/Libertarian action at its core. This is what drowning that 'entitlement baby' in the bathtub looks and feels like.

Quote by Tantaleyes

I don't know about that. Hasn't the House already passed a debt increase bill?

nope. they have been stonewalling it so far.

Quote by Tantaleyes

What about the debt ceiling raise bill they passed back in April?

House votes to pass debt ceiling bill in win for McCarthy | CNN Politics

It authorizes an increase in the debt ceiling.

the current one is all that matters at present.