Quote by Ironic
The data's probably good, coming as they say it is from the CDC.
It's not the data that's been debunked. It's the analysis.
The data that shows red states have a higher murder rate is good says Ironic.
So he agrees... red states have a higher murder rate.
Long article about republican propaganda and hypocrisy when it comes to violent crime in red states...
...
Republicans like to talk tough on crime — but they're the ones with a real crime problem
Crime is much worse in "red states" — and that's been true for years. Why don't Democrats ever just say it?
https://www.salon.com/2023/02/15/like-to-talk-tough-on--but-theyre-the-ones-with-a-real-problem/
Republicans like to talk tough about crime. But they have a crime problem of their own that they want to keep under wraps.
A new study of homicide by the nonpartisan advocacy group Third Way reveals a fact that Republicans don't want to acknowledge: Rates of violent crime, especially murder rates, are higher in red states than in blue states.
That has been true for years, yet Democrats have said almost nothing about this startling fact or about Republicans' evident incompetence in actually doing something about crime.
Crime is an American problem, touching the lives of people in cities, suburbs and rural areas.Yet for all its talk about crime, the Republican Party has not delivered an effective strategy to fight it.
Of course, you would never know that from listening to Republican politicians or the public officials who represent red states. They take every opportunity to try to convince voters that crime is a problem made worse by "liberal" policies, and that it runs rampant in cities and states where Democrats are in charge.
Quote by Magical_felix
Long article about republican propaganda and hypocrisy when it comes to violent crime in red states...
...
Republicans like to talk tough on crime — but they're the ones with a real crime problem
Crime is much worse in "red states" — and that's been true for years. Why don't Democrats ever just say it?
https://www.salon.com/2023/02/15/like-to-talk-tough-on--but-theyre-the-ones-with-a-real-problem/
Republicans like to talk tough about crime. But they have a crime problem of their own that they want to keep under wraps.
A new study of homicide by the nonpartisan advocacy group Third Way reveals a fact that Republicans don't want to acknowledge: Rates of violent crime, especially murder rates, are higher in red states than in blue states.
That has been true for years, yet Democrats have said almost nothing about this startling fact or about Republicans' evident incompetence in actually doing something about crime.
Crime is an American problem, touching the lives of people in cities, suburbs and rural areas.Yet for all its talk about crime, the Republican Party has not delivered an effective strategy to fight it.
Of course, you would never know that from listening to Republican politicians or the public officials who represent red states. They take every opportunity to try to convince voters that crime is a problem made worse by "liberal" policies, and that it runs rampant in cities and states where Democrats are in charge.
Interesting excerpt from this article.
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"While Republicans talk about the crime rate in Democratic run cities like Washington, they won't own up to their own problems in dealing with crime. These problems were highlighted in a 2022 Los Angeles Magazine article which pointed out that murder rates in "mid-sized cities with Republican mayors have actually fared far worse than big cities with Democratic mayors."
For example, the homicide rate in Bakersfield, California — the principal city in Kevin McCarthy's district — was more than twice as high as that of San Francisco, represented in the house by former Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
This brings us back to the Third Way report, which points out that what is true in California is true across the nation. The report meticulously documents the Republicans' hidden crime problem.
"The murder rate in Trump-voting states," the Third Way report says, "has exceeded the murder rate in Biden-voting states every year this century. Cumulatively, overall murder rates since 2000 were on average 23% higher in Trump-voting states."
...
Good thing big cities aren't run by republicans... The murder rate would be even higher like it is in places with republican mayors.
Quote by Magical_felix
Good thing big cities aren't run by republicans... The murder rate would be even higher like it is in places with republican mayors.
I clicked from that article to this one:
“Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have murder rates that dwarf that of Los Angeles (6.74).
In Kentucky, “Lexington’s Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City (5.94).
Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco (5.6) or Los Angeles (6.74)."
Damn.
Quote by AngelEthics
I clicked from that article to this one:
“Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have murder rates that dwarf that of Los Angeles (6.74).
In Kentucky, “Lexington’s Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City (5.94).
Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco (5.6) or Los Angeles (6.74)."
Damn.
It's literally the opposite of what republican politicians have been screaming when it comes to "democrat run cities". I know it's cliche by now but every accusation from them really is a confession.
Quote by Ironic
The mayor of Washington, D.C. is Muriel Bowser (D)
The mayor of Memphis, Tennessee is Jim Strickland (D)
"Washington, D.C., had the highest homicide rate overall in 2020: 24.4 killings were reported for every 100,000 people. After the nation's capital, the highest rates of homicide were found in the Southern states of Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. The state with the lowest reported homicide rate was Maine, with just 1.6 killings per 100,000 people, followed by Idaho and Massachusetts."
Please stay on topic and cut it out with the personal digs that don't further the conversation. I really hate locking threads.
Thanks.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Ironic
So, based on this, I think it's fair to say the idea of ignoring the effects of the Democratic cities' murder rates on the overall state murder rates (like the fraudulent, linked analysis does) doesn't help.
Even when you remove the cities the red states still have a higher murder rate.
What happens in your brain between the time you read that then start typing?
They literally ran the numbers both, with cities and without, and red states ended up having a higher murder rate without cites and an even higher murder rate with cities than blue states did.
Facts don't care about your feelings or inability to understand things.
Quote by Ironic
So, based on this, I think it's fair to say the idea of ignoring the effects of the Democratic cities' murder rates on the overall state murder rates (like the fraudulent, linked analysis does) doesn't help.
They literally removed the cities. Dude.
Also, you now have data comparing red cites to blue cities. Big blue cites like Los Angeles, population 3.8 million vs smaller red city Tulsa, population 411,000, and the murder rate is 19.64 and 6.74 (/100,000) respectively. Of course this is just one example, but the article gives many others. Altogether, this lends validity to the blue state homicide vs red state homicide trends that were in the article linked in the OP.
Quote by Magical_felix
They literally ran the numbers both, with cities and without, and red states ended up having a higher murder rate without cites and an even higher murder rate with cities than blue states did.
That's the confusing part about the abject denial.
At first, the data was trash. Then suddenly the data wasn't trash, the analysis was wrong. Several analyses have been posited related to the data, and they consistently indicate higher murder rates in red states than in blue states.
And now the argument is that the analyses are right, but they're just being interpreted wrong. Why does the goal post keep moving?
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Dani
That's the confusing part about the abject denial.
At first, the data was trash. Then suddenly the data wasn't trash, the analysis was wrong. Several analyses have been posited related to the data, and they consistently indicate higher murder rates in red states than in blue states.
And now the argument is that the analyses are right, but they're just being interpreted wrong. Why does the goal post keep moving?
Not sure why they take it as a personal insult that the statistics show red states have a higher murder rate.
It's weird.
Quote by Ironic
Poor felix! You're all confused.
No, they didn't run the numbers without the cities. Go back and read the piece. They excluded the murders for the county in the state with the largest city. One city per state.
Here, I'll quote your fraudulent study for you since your reading comprehension doesn't cut it, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."
Do you get it now, felix? One city per state. One.
And when that one city is excluded, the murder rate is cut in half. You seem to be too wrapped up in a Red/Blue ideology struggle to understand what's really significant.
Are you so stupid that you think there's only one big city in each of those 19 states? I'll be kind and say you just didn't think it through. What about the other big cities in those 19 states? They're likely to be like the biggest one. Now, if you want, you can give me a good explanation why the other big cities in those 19 states aren't like the biggest, but until you do, and I won't hold my breath waiting for you actually put some effort into understanding the issue, we'll take it as a reasonable guess.
The authors thought it reasonable to remove all of the murders in the county with the largest city, and said so. Can you imagine why they'd do that? Maybe it's because, as I posted above (AE found some others too), it might be because they know that cities have horrendous murder rates. Why that's true is a good thread topic, but not this one.
So what about the murder rates in those other big cities, felix? Tell everybody why it's OK to merge those numbers in with the surrounding counties. Again, I won't be holding my breath waiting for a thoughtful answer, but hey, there's a first for everything.
So now that I've held your hand and walked you step by step through the explanation as to why that analysis is trash, maybe, just maybe, you'll walk away having learned something.
Oh yeah, facts don't care about your feelings or inability to understand things.
The findings still show that the murder rate is higher in red states.
Now, will you be cutting your hair with plastic scissors today or no?
Quote by Ironic
No, they didn't.
Go back and read the piece. They excluded the murders for the county in the state with the largest city. One city per state.
Here's the quote, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."
Only one city per state.
And when that one city is excluded, the murder rate is cut in half.
What about all the other cities? Why would you think they're so different from the one largest city that it's OK to merge them with the counties?
What the analysis does is add together the murder counts from Democratic and Republican jurisdictions, and then it only did it in Red states.
The analysis didn't compare apples to apples, but the authors want their readers to think they did.
For all I know there might be some relationship between murder rates and political party, but the OP linked article doesn't provide us with that information.
But the murder rate is still higher no matter what in red states.
Quote by Ironic
Poor felix! You're all confused.
No, they didn't run the numbers without the cities. Go back and read the piece. They excluded the murders for the county in the state with the largest city. One city per state.
Here, I'll quote your fraudulent study for you since your reading comprehension doesn't cut it, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."
Do you get it now, felix? One city per state. One.
And when that one city is excluded, the murder rate is cut in half. You seem to be too wrapped up in a Red/Blue ideology struggle to understand what's really significant.
Are you so stupid that you think there's only one big city in each of those 19 states? I'll be kind and say you just didn't think it through. What about the other big cities in those 19 states? They're likely to be like the biggest one. Now, if you want, you can give me a good explanation why the other big cities in those 19 states aren't like the biggest, but until you do, and I won't hold my breath waiting for you actually put some effort into understanding the issue, we'll take it as a reasonable guess.
The authors thought it reasonable to remove all of the murders in the county with the largest city, and said so. Can you imagine why they'd do that? Maybe it's because, as I posted above (AE found some others too), it might be because they know that cities have horrendous murder rates. Why that's true is a good thread topic, but not this one.
So what about the murder rates in those other big cities, felix? Tell everybody why it's OK to merge those numbers in with the surrounding counties. Again, I won't be holding my breath waiting for a thoughtful answer, but hey, there's a first for everything.
So now that I've held your hand and walked you step by step through the explanation as to why that analysis is trash, maybe, just maybe, you'll walk away having learned something.
Oh yeah, facts don't care about your feelings or inability to understand things.
Murder rates are higher in red states than in blue states.
What should we do about these murder rates?
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Rural America surging worse in homicides
https://www.crimeandconsequences.blog/?p=7088
...
this first bit is just what we already have posted here
...
"while cities tend to have higher violent crime rates overall, newer research suggests that cities are now safer than they have been in decades, while small communities are becoming more dangerous. Specifically, the massive increase in homicides in rural areas is astonishing. From 2019-2020, homicides in rural areas rose by an average of25 percent.Per the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the states with the highest homicide rates in 2020 were Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, and Arkansas.
The increase in homicides was largely driven by firearm homicides, which increased by 35 percent from 2019-2020, accounting for 75 percent of total homicides. A recent study by the RAND Corporation found that firearm homicide rates have been increasing since 2014, albeit at a slower pace (an average of 6 percent every year from 2014 through 2019). That study also found that Midwest and South-Central states saw the largest relative increases in firearm homicides, which ranged from 75 to 115 percent. Adjusting for demographics, they found that the states that experienced the largest relative increases in firearm homicides were Missouri, Alaska, New Mexico, Kentucky, and Alabama. The states that experienced the lowest relative increases were Connecticut, New York, Nebraska, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. A recent article by the Pegasus Institute agrees that rural America saw a worse surge in homicides in 2020. They focused on Louisville, KY, where homicides rose92 percent in 2020 and then another 9 percent in 2021. In that article, the authors state that Kentucky’s"
...
But this next bit is pretty disturbing.
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"Studies from before the pandemic have found that domestic violence related homicides account for as much as20 percent of all homicides in the U.S. Further, research also suggests that domestic violence homicides have increased in rural areas over the last few decades, yet rates have decreased in urban areas. This study from 2020 notes that several aspects of rural culture may contribute to elevated risks for domestic homicide in rural areas including firearms culture, social and geographic isolation, lack of or accessibility of services, and poverty."
Quote by Ironic
What I've shown you, and everybody else, is that your linked analysis is trash.
The idea there's a relationship between murder rates and political party is interesting, but the fraudulent analysis you linked contributes nothing.
But you didn't show anything besides getting upset over the statistics that show red states have a higher murder rate than blue states.
Quote by Ironic
What I've shown you, and everybody else, is that your linked analysis is trash.
The idea there's a relationship between murder rates and political party is interesting, but the fraudulent analysis you linked contributes nothing.
Posts such as this contribute nothing, where you continue to "debunk" facts by crying foul because they're hard to swallow.
Do better.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Ironic
I don't agree. It alerted everybody to the mistake.
But the fact remains that red states have a higher murder rate.
Quote by Ironic
I don't agree. It alerted everybody to the mistake.
Yes, to you mistaking your vehement denial as fact. Doing so detracts from forwarding the conversation, or even discussing ways we can demand better from our politicians instead of refusing to hold them accountable by denying facts.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Ironic
As I've said before, I'll say again, the idea there's a relationship between murder rates and political party is interesting, but the fraudulent analysis you linked contributes nothing towards understanding.
But like, regardless of how you choose to analyze the statistics, you are statistically more likely to get murdered in a red state.
Why?
Quote by Ironic
I haven't denied any acts. I've shown the linked analysis is trash. Now we can walk away from it knowing the problem isn't that and search for answers.
But the murder rate is higher in states that voted for Trump.
Quote by Ironic
Did you read anywhere in this thread any post that said that wasn't true?
No?
Oh ok, so you do understand that the murder rate is higher in red states than blue states even when you remove the cities in red states from the equation. 👍
Quote by Ironic
You got it wong again.
Are you saying there is only one city in all of the red states? They removed cities from red states and the red states still had a higher murder rate.
Quote by ElCoco
Wow!
That's true. Great exposition.
Are you going to apologize to Ironic for tricking him into having cybersex with you?
Quote by Ironic
Here's the quote, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."
Only one city per state.
19 cities they removed, so they removed cities from the red states and the red states still had a higher murder rate.
Quote by Ironic
Only one city per state. The other cities were merged in with the counties.
Yeah, 19 cities they removed from the red states and even then the murder rate in blue states was still lower.
Quote by Ironic
And it cut the murder rate in half. Only one city per state. The other cities were merged in with the counties. I wonder, but you don't seem to, what would have happened if the other similar cities were removed.
The murder rate in the blue states was still lower even though they didn't remove any of the cities in blue states.
Just crazy how the murder rate in the red states is so much higher than blue states, right Ironic?
Any would realize that more crime exists in cities. Cities is where the vast majority of the people live, and do so in close proximity. And cities, being the population centers, is where the state elections are determined. Geez!
