US Presidential election

Quote by noll

Right now one of the most reasonable Republicans that comes to mind, to me as a foreigner, is Liz Cheney. But I doubt her ideas are all that different from her dad's (correct me if I'm wrong!), who was the epitome of evil less than two decades ago. Not buying into MAGA is a low bar for seeming reasonable. So, what's a normal Republican?

The United States is a radically far-right country. The Republicans are the far right of Americans. There is no functional normal. Even if Trump hadn't run in 2016 and the election was won by another Republican things would still have shaken out the same way.

Same super majority of Supreme Court justices appointed by Republicans with the same extremist views. Roe v Wade would still be overturned. They would have handled the pandemic the same way, just with a little more public finesse. Honestly, I think the Democrats would have handled it the same way if they had been in power. The pushback and unsafe measures were driven by greed and capitalism, not party politics. No one wants to be holding the hot potato when the economy falls through, Democrats would have fought against a shut down just as hard as Trump did if they were in charge.

That sort of is my whole point about this election. While one is unsavory and brash, the other is functionally the same or worse as the Democrats are sneakier and receive less pushback. Democrats raged against Trump's environmental policies but have passed worse measures than he did while in power. Biden and the Democrats are fully committed to expanding drilling, fracking, and mineral mining in the US under the thinly veiled fearmongering of China's tech market share.

And as much as some ignorant people are referring to voting for the third party as a 'protest vote', it's simply not true. It's a vote. It's who I want to run the country. I would rather back someone I believe in than the man poisoning my children's air for higher stock prices.

Progressives think it's better to buy oil than drilling for it ourselves... How does that make any sense?

And not using oil is pure fantasy.

Quote by Magical_felix

Normal is the wrong word. I meant “less dangerous”. Jeb Bush would have been a less dangerous Republican than Trump was, for example.

I think so too. And yet, previously, with less dangerous Republicans candidates, there was the same sense that 'this time' they really need to be stopped from winning.

Do you believe that within the current system, and with MAGA being where it is right now, with most of the Republican politicians having bought into it, and with SCOTUS made up the way it is right now, that it's possible to decrease polarisation? That it is possible to reform the parts of the system that push for a 2-party system, and therefore for polarisation (get rid of the Electoral College, get big money out of politics, etc.)?

I get the impression that some Americans believe it's heading towards some tyrannical state anyway. If they're right, then it might be more dangerous to let it develop slowly into that, than abruptly. #boilingfrog

Quote by Magical_felix

Progressives think it's better to buy oil than drilling for it ourselves... How does that make any sense?

And not using oil is pure fantasy.

Environmentally it may make more sense to drill for oil in a desert than in a place where there's way more life. That's assuming the environmental rules are the same in both places of course.

Quote by noll

Environmentally it may make more sense to drill for oil in a desert than in a place where there's way more life. That's assuming the environmental rules are the same in both places of course.

Environmentally it makes more sense for the human race to cease to exist.

Quote by noll

I think so too. And yet, previously, with less dangerous Republicans candidates, there was the same sense that 'this time' they really need to be stopped from winning.

Do you believe that within the current system, and with MAGA being where it is right now, with most of the Republican politicians having bought into it, and with SCOTUS made up the way it is right now, that it's possible to decrease polarisation? That it is possible to reform the parts of the system that push for a 2-party system, and therefore for polarisation (get rid of the Electoral College, get big money out of politics, etc.)?

I get the impression that some Americans believe it's heading towards some tyrannical state anyway. If they're right, then it might be more dangerous to let it develop slowly into that, than abruptly. #boilingfrog

It’s too polarized now. Too late. The republicans avoided the straight up racism and the actual denial of women’s rights and as long as 50% of the country was living the dream and the other 50% perceived that they still had it better than most people in other countries than nobody really cared. The republican party decided that it had to win in 2016 so created that Frankenstein’s monster called Trump to turn the Supreme Court conservative. They started going too far. Some people will just never stop hating women, gays and minorities and some people will never want to have anything to do with people that hate women, minorities and gays. Seeing that 70 million republicans voted for trump was the bell that was rung. The true colors of 70 million republicans were undeniable after that.

Quote by Magical_felix

It’s too polarized now. Too late. The republicans avoided the straight up racism and the actual denial of women’s rights and as long as 50% of the country was living the dream and the other 50% perceived that they still had it better than most people in other countries than nobody really cared. The republican party decided that it had to win in 2016 so created that Frankenstein’s monster called Trump to turn the Supreme Court conservative. They started going too far. Some people will just never stop hating women, gays and minorities and some people will never want to have anything to do with people that hate women, minorities and gays. Seeing that 70 million republicans voted for trump was the bell that was rung. The true colors of 70 million republicans were undeniable after that.

So, wouldn't it be better then to let it explode quickly and hope for a new start? ++he says safely from the other side of the pond++

Quote by noll

So, wouldn't it be better then to let it explode quickly and hope for a new start? ++he says safely from the other side of the pond++

Nah..

Quote by Magical_felix

It’s too polarized now. Too late. The republicans avoided the straight up racism and the actual denial of women’s rights and as long as 50% of the country was living the dream and the other 50% perceived that they still had it better than most people in other countries than nobody really cared. The republican party decided that it had to win in 2016 so created that Frankenstein’s monster called Trump to turn the Supreme Court conservative. They started going too far. Some people will just never stop hating women, gays and minorities and some people will never want to have anything to do with people that hate women, minorities and gays. Seeing that 70 million republicans voted for trump was the bell that was rung. The true colors of 70 million republicans were undeniable after that.

Pretty soon we’re gonna have a nationwide abortion ban. Fun times ahead.

Quote by Dani

Pretty soon we’re gonna have a nationwide abortion ban. Fun times ahead.

But.. that will rally the progressives Trust the plan 👍

Quote by Dani

Pretty soon we’re gonna have a nationwide abortion ban. Fun times ahead.

If only elderly Democrat judges retired when the Democrats were in charge instead of hanging on so their appointment could be held as leverage against voters in future elections.

Or if only the Democrats had moved to codify abortion rights as the populous had asked instead of keeping the issue around to threaten women with if they dared stray from the party lines.

Quote by Magical_felix

But.. that will rally the progressives Trust the plan 👍

Remember the year Trump won and we found out all those idiots wrote in Harambe? It’s gonna be that shit all over again.

Quote by RowanThorn

If only elderly Democrat judges retired when the Democrats were in charge instead of hanging on so their appointment could be held as leverage against voters in future elections.

Or if only the Democrats had moved to codify abortion rights as the populous had asked instead of keeping the issue around to threaten women with if they dared stray from the party lines.

Yep, Democrats got a lot to answer for in this shit show of a country.

Having only two real political parties is very detrimental to the USA. Both are becoming radicalized, growing a much bigger gulf between each idealogically. There are no diplomats or statesman between the parties anymore and it is only going to get worse.

Most European nations have a multi-party system that forces compromise and coalitions. That works better than what we currently have.

Stormi Daniels for president...

Latest polling for Biden is pretty dismal. Looks like a pretty bad for the Democrats as Trump is holding the popular vote as well. Not a majority, but the left base are spread out with other candidates.

Seems as though the ‘lesser of two evil’ arguments doesn’t resonate with the young generation when the lesser evil still pushes to fund a genocide.

Another note is the Biden campaign and the Democrats have a massive unspent war chest. Normally both parties are in full swing campaigning at this point and Biden is sitting it out.

Currently the most likely way to avoid another Trump presidency is if he dies of heart disease, because he’s not looking like he’ll be losing in a general election.

The polling was bad for Biden in 2020. There's more of us than there are of them and nobody has ever polled me or anyone I know.

Trump is getting rolled in November - prosecuted in all his remaining court cases and will probably be fitted with an ankle bracelet and get to spend all of his incarceration in that cockroach infested Mar-a-Lardo until he expires with his death rattle.

He'll get the Jeffrey Epstein imprisonment handshake deal.

Supreme Court is ruling in a way that the other 3 criminal trials will not happen till after the election. This is the only one you’ll get. And polling is a sample that potentially reflects the whole.

But as the standard for Trump elections he outperforms the polls. Large issue here is his supporters are actually excited to vote for him and Biden’s are not. And that especially may be the case this year as early polling on young Americans is indicating you’ll see low turnout and a lot of third party voting. Biden’s handling of the Palestinian genocide and subsequent student protests has tanked his odds.

Young people are not willing to vote for a candidate that endorsed genocide and is actively looking to send more weapons for that purpose. Biden won the last election on the back of a progressive wave against Trump and he’ll lose this election for giving them nothing but death and poverty for their efforts.

I think Biden's going to lose big time, and the only question is how many others he's going to take with him.

his only saving grace is the money he has available for commercials. they seem to be the only thing that helps.

what a total waste, anyone else would be running circles around dumpy.

smiling grampa jo is. hung up on his pet projects, his sf democrat is an automatic anchor.

he's 80, he looks it, can't communicate effectively, let the border stuff fester.

I wish he'd quit.

So tin foil hat conspiracies are the Democrats understand that the next four years are going to be terrible politically. Stock market, housing market, and the gdp have been artificially pumped up for a while now and that can’t last forever. Also issues like the genocide America is sponsoring in Palestine is making ally’s abroad and citizen here angry. But the Dems get tons of funds from Israeli super pacs so they won’t fight it.

But if Trump wins they could sidestep blame and let it fall on him. Just a conspiracy theory making the rounds because Biden is such a terrible candidate and the campaign spending is almost non-existent compared to what it normally is this time of year so some people think they are just throwing the election.

Watching all this from Canada is a combination clown show and a bit scary. That the most powerful nation on earth is going to be run by an old geezer (either one) is a bit startling. Having said that I don't see that Biden's mental health is anywhere near as alarming as Trump's mental health. The problem with Trump is he says so much crazy bullshit its hard to tell what's crazy and what's just his usual packet of lies.

If I was an American I would ask myself who do I want:

a) the old guy who will surround himself with a team of reasonably decent, principled advisors

or

b) the old guy who will surround himself with a team of ass-kissing sychophants who will do his every bidding without question

Obviously we can argue relative merits back and forth but when I see something like the below I just don't see how anyone can seriously vote for Trump.

Fact check: Trump falsely claims Democratic states are passing laws allowing people to execute babies after birth (yahoo.com) Canada

As an American I wonder why I’m expected to choose between only two candidates, both of which are firmly supporting an active genocide and war crimes.

The two party system has been something pushed to limit our ability to choose candidates that represent our interests and only leaves ‘the lesser of two evils’ which means we are always voting for evil. The mentality is so bad here that as evidence in these forums if you don’t support the Democrats you are accused of being a Republican plant. The older generation especially only comprehend politics as a team sport, them or me.

Recent polling shows this system is unraveling with the younger generation and thank goodness for that. Biden won on the backs of the youth vote, then enacted the same policies Trump did while delivering on none of his campaign promises and expects the same young people to vote for him again. Meanwhile third parties are finding their largest base of support in decades. Republican youth are going libertarian, democrat youth are finding a plethora of candidates such as the Green Party or Cornel West that actually fight for what they want.

They refuse to hold their nose and take the bad medicine, instead opting for institutional change. They see a loss to Trump as probable but ultimately the only step to bucking the system. The democrats went all in on an out of touch candidate who promised the status quo, the status quo for the youth is poverty and a violent government more interested in bombing civilians on the other end of the globe than basic healthcare for its citizens.

I’m also holding out for the dark horse ‘both candidates die before November’ option as it’s legitimately possible with the poor health of both candidates.

Green Party Candidate Cornell West Owes more than Half a Million Dollars in Unpaid Taxes and Child Support

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/green-party-candidate-cornel-west-owes-half-million/story?id=102293692

Philosopher and presidentialGreen Party candidateCornel Westcurrently owes more than half a million dollars between unpaid taxes and unpaid child support, according to tax records.

Records show West owes nearly $466,000 in federal income taxes from 2013 until 2017. This came after he accrued (and later repaid) a debt of nearly $725,000 from 1998-2005, and more than $34,000 in 2008, according to tax records in Mercer County, New Jersey – where he owns a home.

Additionally, West has an outstanding $49,500 child support judgement from 2003, records show.

...

lol

West isn’t the Green Party candidate anymore. Keep with the times. Also I would prefer a candidate with a tax debt over one that sponsors a genocide In Palestinian. That might just be me.

Meanwhile Biden has made an election year plea to Trump supporters by effectively banning asylum seekers.

Nice attempt to distract from policy talk though.

Green Party criticism and controversies

Some political analysts argue that the party's tickets have resulted in elections beingspoiledfor theDemocratic Party, withRepublicancandidates winning – most notablyGeorge W. Bush's defeat of Al Gore in 2000[21][22][23][24]andd1lTurgASL3dItfl.KtlAxAZDLVBCbwEJIn 2019, former Green presidential candidateRalph NadertoldThe Washingtonianthat, while he still does not consider himself a spoiler, he regretted not entering the 2000 Democratic primary.vZMCxb0CkRekR58qA 2020The New York Timesarticle highlighted previous efforts by members of the Republican Party to use the Green Party to spoil elections in their party's favor.CFAGDnMkNtJSL1vU

Russia

TheUnited States Senate's probe into Russian election interference investigatedJill Steinand the Green Party for potential collusion and looked to better understand why and how Russia was promoting the party.KAuWgly2vcutcdnrPoliticoandNewsweekreported that Russian state actors covertly promoted Stein and other Green Party candidates onFacebookprior to theEF7TaRP78rmwwAZB.qsPZJsCf6GKQvB9vRE71hjpyNlsl4ieENBC Newsreported that a "growing body of evidence [exists] that [shows] the Russians worked to boost the Stein campaign as part of the effort to siphon support away from Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and tilt the election to Trump."[55]NBC News additionally documented over 100 instances where Stein appeared on Russian state media, receiving favorable coverage.uw9nA32bOX8co1O2In 2015, Stein was photographed dining at the same table as Russian presidentVladimir Putinat theRT10th anniversary gala in Moscow, leading to further controversy.rxeBTkkh4Ua0AMNGStein contended that she had no contact with Putin at the dinner and described the situation as a "non-event".[57]

Stein's 2016 foreign policy positions regarding Russian topics have been considered by some to have mirrored those of the Russian government, in some instances, including concerning thePpdGceFPFdy9ODQC.fkWOopwexYDNVC6tBeIKIXVz1amLQ5FFStein condemned Russia's2022 invasion of Ukraine, but claimed that Russia was provoked byNATO'ses5sGMIzpd0zTvzE.wVwoS0xvtvYD9OPb

Irregularities

On October 16, 2019, a joint candidate letter called for reform in the Green Party's presidential primary process in response to the party's announcement that it would remove unrecognized candidates from its website list that November, an effort which Green candidates claimed was being to done to help theHawkins campaignsecure the party's nomination.AysYAeOBE38ZEYVkThis was followed by allegations ofconflicts of interestamong the party's leadership, members of which the candidates believed were helping party co-founderHowie Hawkins, and of an alleged overlooking of a violation of Green Party rules that would have disqualified Hawkins from running as a Green, due to him also seeking theSocialist Party's nomination.WHJL4IEuwnamN7mi

After the 2020 Green Party Nominating Convention named Hawkins as their presidential candidate, runner-upDario Hunterannounced viaTwitterthat he would continue to pursue the presidency as an independent candidate.sOZNh2aJBNSgyAqnHunter cited alleged irregularities and undemocratic processes throughout the Green Party presidential primary, stating that party leaders had committed “ethical lapses” to ensure Hawkins nomination, and criticizing Hawkins for what he saw as his "imperialistperspective" and "CIAtalking points.”NmNjtjxmHvuiZR82Cm6yZqyohHuqu5Gm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_of_the_United_States

...

These guys sound a lot like the freedom caucus lol, especially the Russia part.

So you’re evidence is a Democrat spurred investigation that investigated and found no evidence the Green Party colluded with the Russians.

Then it’s a conspiracy theory that any third party candidate is a Russian plant.

And then the non-points of voting for third party takes away votes from the two parties (which is the point).

Meanwhile they are a party with extreme differences in policies and beliefs and much more align with what the average American says they want from their government. And I can’t emphasize this enough…

They are against the genocide in Palestine. Something that Biden supports wholly and has used all his political clout to fund.

You arguments are tired and don’t actually focus on policy of any politician at all. Just more fear mongering to try and keep people in line with the two party system.

Want to copy/paste the criticisms and controversy section of the Democrats from Wikipedia too?

"It's the democrat's new hoax!"

lol

Want to get into Biden accepting $5.2 million dollars in donations from the Israeli Super PAC, AIPAC? Or that Democrats received about $40 million in donations from AIPAC and it’s affiliate, UDP in the last 6 months? including a huge surge of donations to both democrats and republicans after they passed the bill to send a few more billion in free weapons to Israel?

Latest counts of those killed by Israeli attacks in the least 6 months total over 35,000 counted, not including those dead by starvation and disease. Over half of those killed are women and children. Bombing of refuge camps, hospitals, and schools are a daily occurrence. And Biden calls his support of this “Iron Clad”.

But please, tell me more of the Democrat lead investigation that found no evidence against third parties. I’m sure that will sway the college students being arrested for protesting and make them loyal Democrats.

What's the green party going to do about it? Borrow some money from Russia to go plant a tree in Israel?

lol