Quote by noll

I highly doubt that rural residents 'generally work in agriculture', unless perhaps you also count the guy selling tractors or the trucker driving animal food around, etc. But these jobs provide no more exercise than selling family cars or driving around with grocery supplies.

There may be more physical work in the countryside, relatively speaking. But I'd think there are also way more city folks who hang out in gyms.

There is a lack of health care as well because affordable health care is woke.

People in Rural Areas Die at Higher Rates Than Those in Urban Areas

Deaths from heart disease, cancer and COVID are all higher in rural areas than urban ones in the U.S., and the gap is only widening

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-in-rural-areas-die-at-higher-rates-than-those-in-urban-areas/#:~:text=Homicides%20are%20higher%20in%20urban,areas%2C%20other%20NCHS%20data%20show.

Compared with people living in cities, rural residents are less likely to have access to health care and more likely to live in poverty. Rural states and counties also tend to lean Republican, and many of them have resisted adopting public policies known to improve health.

“I’m not sure that many people are aware that death and health outcomes are deteriorating in rural areas relative to urban ones,” says Sally Curtin, a demographic/health statistician at the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and a co-author of the report.

While men have higher mortality rates than women overall, rates were higher among rural male and female individuals than among urban ones, and the gap widened over the study period, the researchers found.

Mortality rates were higher in rural areas for all of the top 10 causes of death in 2019. Heart disease was the leading cause, killing 189 people per 100,000 in rural areas and 156 per 100,000 in urban ones. Cancer was the second-biggest killer, claiming 164 and 143 lives per 100,000 in rural versus urban areas, respectively. The third leading cause of death in 2019 was unintentional injuries, a category that includes causes such as drug overdoses and firearm injuries that exclude homicide and suicide.

Rural deaths by suicide have increased by nearly 50 percent from 2000 to 2018, a separate analysis found.

Motor vehicle deaths are almost twice as common in rural areas as urban ones, according to another NCHS analysis.

Higher rural mortality rates can partially be explained by behavioral factors that increase the risk of chronic disease, such as smokingand lack of exercise. Obesity rates are also higher in rural areas. But it’s often difficult to disentangle such behaviors from the politics and policy decisions that enable them

Rural areas tend to be more politically conservative, and data suggest that people in Republican-leaning counties die at higher rates than people in Democratic ones. Many Republican-led states haven’t expanded Medicaid, which, under the Affordable Care Act, provides health insurance for low-income adults under age 65.

The reasons for the higher mortality rates in rural areas are likely multifactorial, experts say. “You can’t just point to one thing,” Curtin says.

Captured, Killed or Compromised: C.I.A. Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants

WASHINGTON — Top American counterintelligence officials warned every C.I.A. station and base around the world last week about troubling numbers of informants recruited from other countries to spy for the United States being captured or killed, people familiar with the matter said.

The message, in an unusual top secret cable, said that the C.I.A.’s counterintelligence mission center had looked at dozens of cases in the last several years involving foreign informants who had been killed, arrested or most likely compromised. Although brief, the cable laid out the specific number of agents executed by rival intelligence agencies — a closely held detail that counterintelligence officials typically do not share in such cables.

The cable highlighted the struggle the spy agency is having as it works to recruit spies around the world in difficult operating environments. In recent years, adversarial intelligence services in countries such as Russia, China, Iran and Pakistan have been hunting down the C.I.A.’s sources and in some cases turning them into double agents.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html?unlocked_article_code=eqcF_ISs2K-l8pzUNCLrITV-7p-dKvsYraB85L6u6NEfikf973kIJoyPq5-IS7x1_r2kNFoRkIZiVWNfC9m06J_JTR0n2d4nzzo_7g-rSmrna_z3D_srReNzCF6v34qyvrlUfB156xqGGXtRkLIp7xZaSKur8vzYyn0TlqmoK1ZSb7nCS66HjCZmPyPgGWBR1IExUwnJNDqWkpFInDk4b-_2RRym7ZA83-2J9GJXyCxpo7VfpOSfQjyVpUwPg6RLMlaNL1Knx7Oy-J7c7kuxUg3Pc7wn_SbCBBRrgfnv4J15-YbvIZJ1p4SSMeTAQonclPhorBrwjl_ShTr1MdhyDplqvaTjQSbuTG9z_Q&smid=tw-share

I wonder what was going on in 2021 when this article was written...

Quote by Ironic

And it cut the murder rate in half. Only one city per state. The other cities were merged in with the counties. I wonder, but you don't seem to, what would have happened if the other similar cities were removed.

The murder rate in the blue states was still lower even though they didn't remove any of the cities in blue states.

Just crazy how the murder rate in the red states is so much higher than blue states, right Ironic?

Quote by Ironic

Only one city per state. The other cities were merged in with the counties.

Yeah, 19 cities they removed from the red states and even then the murder rate in blue states was still lower.

Quote by Ironic

Here's the quote, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."

Only one city per state.

19 cities they removed, so they removed cities from the red states and the red states still had a higher murder rate.

Quote by ElCoco

Wow!

That's true. Great exposition.

Are you going to apologize to Ironic for tricking him into having cybersex with you?

Quote by Ironic

You got it wong again.

Are you saying there is only one city in all of the red states? They removed cities from red states and the red states still had a higher murder rate.

Quote by Ironic

Did you read anywhere in this thread any post that said that wasn't true?

No?

Oh ok, so you do understand that the murder rate is higher in red states than blue states even when you remove the cities in red states from the equation. 👍

Quote by Ironic

I haven't denied any acts. I've shown the linked analysis is trash. Now we can walk away from it knowing the problem isn't that and search for answers.

But the murder rate is higher in states that voted for Trump.

Quote by Ironic

As I've said before, I'll say again, the idea there's a relationship between murder rates and political party is interesting, but the fraudulent analysis you linked contributes nothing towards understanding.

But like, regardless of how you choose to analyze the statistics, you are statistically more likely to get murdered in a red state.

Why?

Quote by Ironic

I don't agree. It alerted everybody to the mistake.

But the fact remains that red states have a higher murder rate.

Quote by Ironic

What I've shown you, and everybody else, is that your linked analysis is trash.

The idea there's a relationship between murder rates and political party is interesting, but the fraudulent analysis you linked contributes nothing.

But you didn't show anything besides getting upset over the statistics that show red states have a higher murder rate than blue states.

Rural America surging worse in homicides

https://www.crimeandconsequences.blog/?p=7088

...

this first bit is just what we already have posted here

...

"while cities tend to have higher violent crime rates overall, newer research suggests that cities are now safer than they have been in decades, while small communities are becoming more dangerous. Specifically, the massive increase in homicides in rural areas is astonishing. From 2019-2020, homicides in rural areas rose by an average of25 percent.Per the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the states with the highest homicide rates in 2020 were Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, and Arkansas.

The increase in homicides was largely driven by firearm homicides, which increased by 35 percent from 2019-2020, accounting for 75 percent of total homicides. A recent study by the RAND Corporation found that firearm homicide rates have been increasing since 2014, albeit at a slower pace (an average of 6 percent every year from 2014 through 2019). That study also found that Midwest and South-Central states saw the largest relative increases in firearm homicides, which ranged from 75 to 115 percent. Adjusting for demographics, they found that the states that experienced the largest relative increases in firearm homicides were Missouri, Alaska, New Mexico, Kentucky, and Alabama. The states that experienced the lowest relative increases were Connecticut, New York, Nebraska, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. A recent article by the Pegasus Institute agrees that rural America saw a worse surge in homicides in 2020. They focused on Louisville, KY, where homicides rose92 percent in 2020 and then another 9 percent in 2021. In that article, the authors state that Kentucky’s"

...

But this next bit is pretty disturbing.

...

"Studies from before the pandemic have found that domestic violence related homicides account for as much as20 percent of all homicides in the U.S. Further, research also suggests that domestic violence homicides have increased in rural areas over the last few decades, yet rates have decreased in urban areas. This study from 2020 notes that several aspects of rural culture may contribute to elevated risks for domestic homicide in rural areas including firearms culture, social and geographic isolation, lack of or accessibility of services, and poverty."

Quote by Ironic

No, they didn't.

Go back and read the piece. They excluded the murders for the county in the state with the largest city. One city per state.

Here's the quote, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."

Only one city per state.

And when that one city is excluded, the murder rate is cut in half.

What about all the other cities? Why would you think they're so different from the one largest city that it's OK to merge them with the counties?

What the analysis does is add together the murder counts from Democratic and Republican jurisdictions, and then it only did it in Red states.

The analysis didn't compare apples to apples, but the authors want their readers to think they did.

For all I know there might be some relationship between murder rates and political party, but the OP linked article doesn't provide us with that information.

But the murder rate is still higher no matter what in red states.

Quote by Ironic

Poor felix! You're all confused.

No, they didn't run the numbers without the cities. Go back and read the piece. They excluded the murders for the county in the state with the largest city. One city per state.

Here, I'll quote your fraudulent study for you since your reading comprehension doesn't cut it, "For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states."

Do you get it now, felix? One city per state. One.

And when that one city is excluded, the murder rate is cut in half. You seem to be too wrapped up in a Red/Blue ideology struggle to understand what's really significant.

Are you so stupid that you think there's only one big city in each of those 19 states? I'll be kind and say you just didn't think it through. What about the other big cities in those 19 states? They're likely to be like the biggest one. Now, if you want, you can give me a good explanation why the other big cities in those 19 states aren't like the biggest, but until you do, and I won't hold my breath waiting for you actually put some effort into understanding the issue, we'll take it as a reasonable guess.

The authors thought it reasonable to remove all of the murders in the county with the largest city, and said so. Can you imagine why they'd do that? Maybe it's because, as I posted above (AE found some others too), it might be because they know that cities have horrendous murder rates. Why that's true is a good thread topic, but not this one.

So what about the murder rates in those other big cities, felix? Tell everybody why it's OK to merge those numbers in with the surrounding counties. Again, I won't be holding my breath waiting for a thoughtful answer, but hey, there's a first for everything.

So now that I've held your hand and walked you step by step through the explanation as to why that analysis is trash, maybe, just maybe, you'll walk away having learned something.

Oh yeah, facts don't care about your feelings or inability to understand things.

The findings still show that the murder rate is higher in red states.

Now, will you be cutting your hair with plastic scissors today or no?

Quote by Dani

That's the confusing part about the abject denial.

At first, the data was trash. Then suddenly the data wasn't trash, the analysis was wrong. Several analyses have been posited related to the data, and they consistently indicate higher murder rates in red states than in blue states.

And now the argument is that the analyses are right, but they're just being interpreted wrong. Why does the goal post keep moving?

Not sure why they take it as a personal insult that the statistics show red states have a higher murder rate.

It's weird.

Quote by Ironic

So, based on this, I think it's fair to say the idea of ignoring the effects of the Democratic cities' murder rates on the overall state murder rates (like the fraudulent, linked analysis does) doesn't help.

Even when you remove the cities the red states still have a higher murder rate.

What happens in your brain between the time you read that then start typing?

They literally ran the numbers both, with cities and without, and red states ended up having a higher murder rate without cites and an even higher murder rate with cities than blue states did.

Facts don't care about your feelings or inability to understand things.

Quote by AngelEthics

I clicked from that article to this one:

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/why-youre-far-more-likely-to-be-murdered-in-fresno-or-bakersfield-than-san-fran-and-l-a/

“Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have murder rates that dwarf that of Los Angeles (6.74).

In Kentucky, “Lexington’s Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City (5.94). 

Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco (5.6) or Los Angeles (6.74)."

Damn.

It's literally the opposite of what republican politicians have been screaming when it comes to "democrat run cities". I know it's cliche by now but every accusation from them really is a confession.

Quote by Magical_felix

Long article about republican propaganda and hypocrisy when it comes to violent crime in red states...

...

Republicans like to talk tough on crime — but they're the ones with a real crime problem

Crime is much worse in "red states" — and that's been true for years. Why don't Democrats ever just say it?

https://www.salon.com/2023/02/15/like-to-talk-tough-on--but-theyre-the-ones-with-a-real-problem/

Republicans like to talk tough about crime. But they have a crime problem of their own that they want to keep under wraps.

A new study of homicide by the nonpartisan advocacy group Third Way reveals a fact that Republicans don't want to acknowledge: Rates of violent crime, especially murder rates, are higher in red states than in blue states. 

That has been true for years, yet Democrats have said almost nothing about this startling fact or about Republicans' evident incompetence in actually doing something about crime.

Crime is an American problem, touching the lives of people in cities, suburbs and rural areas.Yet for all its talk about crime, the Republican Party has not delivered an effective strategy to fight it.  

Of course, you would never know that from listening to Republican politicians or the public officials who represent red states. They take every opportunity to try to convince voters that crime is a problem made worse by "liberal" policies, and that it runs rampant in cities and states where Democrats are in charge. 

Interesting excerpt from this article.

...

"While Republicans talk about the crime rate in Democratic run cities like Washington, they won't own up to their own problems in dealing with crime. These problems were highlighted in a 2022 Los Angeles Magazine article which pointed out that murder rates in "mid-sized cities with Republican mayors have actually fared far worse than big cities with Democratic mayors."

For example, the homicide rate in Bakersfield, California — the principal city in Kevin McCarthy's district — was more than twice as high as that of San Francisco, represented in the house by former Speaker Nancy Pelosi.  

This brings us back to the Third Way report, which points out that what is true in California is true across the nation. The report meticulously documents the Republicans' hidden crime problem.

"The murder rate in Trump-voting states," the Third Way report says, "has exceeded the murder rate in Biden-voting states every year this century. Cumulatively, overall murder rates since 2000 were on average 23% higher in Trump-voting states."

...

Good thing big cities aren't run by republicans... The murder rate would be even higher like it is in places with republican mayors.

Long article about republican propaganda and hypocrisy when it comes to violent crime in red states...

...

Republicans like to talk tough on crime — but they're the ones with a real crime problem

Crime is much worse in "red states" — and that's been true for years. Why don't Democrats ever just say it?

https://www.salon.com/2023/02/15/like-to-talk-tough-on--but-theyre-the-ones-with-a-real-problem/

Republicans like to talk tough about crime. But they have a crime problem of their own that they want to keep under wraps.

A new study of homicide by the nonpartisan advocacy group Third Way reveals a fact that Republicans don't want to acknowledge: Rates of violent crime, especially murder rates, are higher in red states than in blue states. 

That has been true for years, yet Democrats have said almost nothing about this startling fact or about Republicans' evident incompetence in actually doing something about crime.

Crime is an American problem, touching the lives of people in cities, suburbs and rural areas.Yet for all its talk about crime, the Republican Party has not delivered an effective strategy to fight it.  

Of course, you would never know that from listening to Republican politicians or the public officials who represent red states. They take every opportunity to try to convince voters that crime is a problem made worse by "liberal" policies, and that it runs rampant in cities and states where Democrats are in charge. 

Quote by Ironic

The data's probably good, coming as they say it is from the CDC.

It's not the data that's been debunked. It's the analysis.

The data that shows red states have a higher murder rate is good says Ironic.

So he agrees... red states have a higher murder rate.

Quote by ElCoco

What more did you want? Since the analysis merges and mixes data from both parties and the authors present the results as if it didn't, you should be grateful that some people took the time to debunk the analysis.

I don't think anybody said the data doesn't show a trend. Can you find any post here that says the data doesn't show a trend?

.

1) Ensorceled was the one who suggested the relationship between gun ownership and murder rates.

2 & 3) Those possible causes don't have anything to do with the redness or blueness of the state, like the analysis results suggest.

.

I wouldn't be surprised that a political hit piece like that clever misuse of statistics would be used by an unscrupulous politician. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

1) I did in the first post

2) So it's just a coincidence that every red state has a higher murder rate... 👍

Quote by Chryses

No. The way the analysis was performed was the problem. The linked analysis did not produce like-to-like (B/R) entities for comparison.

I shall return tomorrow.

I knew these facts about how rural America is more murderous would trigger you, but not to this degree. You’ve been waffling bad lol

lol

Countless articles and reports on this... Must be the Matrix or something.

Gun Violence Rates in Rural Areas Match or Outpace Cities

https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities