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bethalia

Over 90 days ago

Straight Male, 71

United States

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Advanced Wordsmith

21 Apr 2014

Quote by sprite

just couldn't resist getting some more insults in, could you? you've missed a few, btw. here, i'll help you. that sprite's a total cunt-faced bitch. that should start things rolling again.

You think of yourself as "a total cunt-faced bitch" ??????? That really is indicative of absolutely lousy self-esteem. I'd really encourage you.......

.....Oh, wait. Oh, I get it! You typed that on your keyboard and clicked 'Post' to try to put those words in MY mouth. As a way to attack and insult me, and to trick people into believing (and who undoubtedly would just love to believe) that I actual said anything remotely like that.

I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person, and I have enjoyed the stories of yours I've read.

But do you really feel so threatened by the concept that Lush, while a good site that I consider contributing some dollars to as well spent, might be less than perfect that you have to go to such absurd extremities to attack me?

Advanced Wordsmith

21 Apr 2014

Quote by GardenerGuy

precise-amundo, thank-you!

that being said however, this *H-A-S* to be asked:

Don: do you still stand by what you say that Possibly is "shitty and clueless"?

and DO NOT give me any obfuscatory, deflecting horsey-poo - hoping you have the cojones to give me a simple yes or no.

and yeah I know I could have PM'ed this - fuck that shit - I'd like to hear it here, and maybe sooner than later, dude.

:)

Yes, GG, I understand your need to misrepresent what I said (and from another 'Forum Guru.' Surprise!). It's a time-tested way to attack.

What I said (and perhaps a bit with an injudicious choice of words that nonetheless conveyed accurate concepts) was that the behavior Possibly (and her co-author) engaged in was shitty and clueless. And it was. That doesn't mean that she or her co-author are either of those things. To give you an idea of the distinction: I just said you misrepresented what I said. You did. But that doesn't mean I'm accusing you of being a liar and dishonest in the general conduct of your life and relationships. It's just that I understand that to accomplish the purpose of attacking me and trying to make me look bad you've elected to misrepresent my words. It's a common method to attack people (especially on internet forums ), and I recognize it. That's all.

What you think of as obfuscation is just a matter of my having been around the block a few time, having the ability to recognize the sleights-of-hand and rhetorical tricks (English/Communications is my field) so many in this thread have used to attack the messenger and in so doing side-step and avoid the message, and my refusal to engage with that sort of nonsense.

As I've said previously (and I think several times), it's great that Possibly has acknowledged that she made a mistake, has extended an apology, and made amends. That's appropriate and speaks loudly to her good character and personal qualities. (Of course, I haven't heard word one from her co-author.)

Was there anything else I could help you with today?

Advanced Wordsmith

21 Apr 2014

Quote by dpw

It's true that you didn't bring it up in the op. You brought it up in your second post and that was the first mention of it. You also said that your stories hadn't come close but how do you know that? It not as though authors are told that they nearly got a RR.
I do get acknowledged, it's a simple pm that says thank you and for me that is enough. The story is THEIR story, not mine! I just assist in getting it out to the readers.
You achieved everthing that you set out to in the op. You have given your warning, you have received your acknowledgement and even an apology. After that you called a mod childish and churlish, for a man of our age, that displays both of those qualities.

Is this STILL going on? Real life (as opposed to internet life) intervened for a few days, but I'm glad it at least seems to be winding down a bit.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'assist in getting it out to the readers.' I hope if you're editing you're providing a real benefit. I get the impression some decide to edit just because they've been writing for a while, and that's generous but not necessarily helpful. (And I'm just asking. My assumption is that what you provide is helpful and worthwhile.) I enjoy editing because of the teaching function involved. I can provide authoritative information on the mechanics/punctuation/grammar/usage side, and informed and experienced opinion on the character/plot/setting/mood/etc. side. Hopefully folks can offer the same if they're going to set themselves up as editors.

And you can't really mean to take me to task for being critical of anyone (although you specifically mentioned moderator, so I get it: site insider, sacred personage, above criticism). Have you paid attention to the crap that's been heaped on me for opening up to discussion and scrutiny that Lush, while a quality site, might have an issue or two and be less than perfect? (said B.E. to yet another Forum Guru - although I need to be careful, as if this thread goes on much longer I'll have reached a sufficient number of posts to achieve that exalted sobriquet!).

I noticed omkn dropped out of the discussion fairly early, and that was a wise decision. It's my OT so I've stayed with it even though it makes me a target for the insiders and the powers that can't abide the concept of the site they're heavily invested in as being not in every way perfect. Certainly the idea of a heavy gender bias and a bias toward verifiers/moderators/site directors in story recognition is obvious. It's not an issue for me. I don't have an interest, which is why I very deliberately stay away from contests and competitions. But the issue exists, is readily observable, but is one which site proprietors and insiders just don't have the capacity to acknowledge or address. That's a shame.

A surprising aspect of this has been experiencing the extremity of Liz's bad behavior. I've not wanted to engage with her directly, as who knows what sort of shit-storm that would incite. And I shouldn't be surprised, as in the few months I've been associated with the site I've seen her insult and flame others with whom she disagrees. I've been on my share of sites and forums, and I've always (I can't think of an exception except here) found that those who run sites very much want civil discussion on the boards. But Liz has no hesitation in insulting and flaming and engaging in behavior that is just not appropriate. She's great with people she likes, who agree with her, and site insiders. But suggest less than perfection in her site and she really unsheathes the daggers and starts slashing. The capacity to engage rationally and reasonably with those with whom she disagrees is a tool that just doesn't seem to be in her tool box. It would be nice if she could set a better example. I understand that not everyone has the capacity to lead and lead by example.

Anyway, appreciate the response and your ideas.

Advanced Wordsmith

18 Apr 2014

Quote by Broccck

LovelyKinkyKitsune, I understand what you are saying here as I have books published in the real world and there is a way this is done: The "Acknowledgements" at the front of the book. But I am writing in history, a non -fiction category, so a LOT of research is done into what others have said about the subject of your research, and you can have a lifetimes correspondence with many of these people.
In short the need to thank or acknowledge meaningful assistance of any significant kind is a courtesy.
Additionally, I make a royalty on every book that sells. So I do owe others a word of thanks.

But isn't this whole matter this thread is about a very small matter by comparison?
I mean, someone forgot to thank someone else in the specific way they would have been pleased with for help on a few pages of erotic writing? Maybe there is a "slight" here, but can it be of such magnitude that a whole thread has been used to call attention to that reputed slight? Plus the person who has allegedly done the "slighting" has given a public apology for doing so. I should think that would be more than sufficient.
That this "slight" is now being tossed about on an almost "epic" scale is pretense......it is overblown......
Additionally, so many tangential matters have been raised only to serve to hurt the feelings and impugn the integrity of others and this site itself, etc., that it is perhaps best if we just drop this whole thread and take each matter up individually in other more appropriate ways.

I beg you all to please keep this in perspective and stop.

I think you're right, Broccck. The thread has gone far afield of my intention. That's not necessarily a bad thing. As I've mentioned above - to the extent that the discussion raises consciousness among writers about the ordinary courtesies practiced in the real world, then that's all to the good. (And since you mentioned it, an acknowledgements section is found in every book, fiction and non-fiction.)

Also, as I mentioned above, as the discussion got rolling I did develop a curiosity about how the powers that be would react to it all. As I've stated several times I find this a quality site that is worth my financial support. The forums always struck me as low key and civil. BUT I'd never seen a situation in which anyone was in any way critical (however slightly and, really, the issues raised in the thread are hardly earth-shattering) of the site and its proprietors.

So as other posters began to raise issues critical in nature and the thread began to veer away from my intentions I became curious about whether or not the powers had the capacity to rationally and in a civil way address criticisms or issues. That curiosity was certainly satisfied. As you can see above, the reaction from the proprietors and long-time and faithful insiders and users is what often comes out of organizations: deny, stonewall, attack. There are some fine and open-minded organizations out there, but mostly organizations close ranks to repel anything that is remotely perceived as a threat or that suggests the organization is anything less than perfect. It's pretty standard organizational behavior.

So, disappointing but not surprising.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

BTW - I wanted to thank those who have gotten in touch via PM with expressions of support.

I appreciate that with the people who run the site, and who are most actively involved, engaging in throwing insults and name calling and flaming that folks don't necessarily want to stick their heads up on a public board.

But I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Dani

You claim your original post was done as a warning to those that edit stories as a favor. But dude, really? Telling people they may not always be acknowledged for the things they do is like putting a 'Caution! Wet floor!' sign in the middle of the ocean. You edited a story, you got annoyed that you weren't mentioned, and you made a thread knowing the author would see it in order to shame them into submission. Mission accomplished. You wanted to rile people up. You wanted people to speak ill of Possibly and others who have the audacity not to publicly acknowledge those who help them edit their submissions. Please don't insult our intelligence by claiming otherwise.

You accuse others of disparaging you, insulting you, and dismissing your points, but you've done the same. You say we haven't acknowledged any of your theories, yet you dismiss all of our attempts to reason with you all while questioning our intelligence. You say one thing, we present you with facts as to why that may not be the case. Calling a spade a spade is not the same as dismissing you. Perhaps you're the one that needs to develop a thicker skin.

What's your end goal? If you're interested in figuring out how/why RR's and other such rewards are given, why not just ask instead of accuse? You're all fired up, and it's counterproductive. Don't take the offensive approach, and people won't feel the need to get defensive.

The problem isn't in you bringing these issues up, it's your tact (or lack thereof) in doing so. You started this thread with a chip on your shoulder. Although this thread has changed directions, the chip remains on your shoulder, and is reflected in the way you post.

Yes, yes, yes, Dani. We've already covered this ground. I understand the need to ascribe all sorts of dastardly motivations to me. It's a way to undermine me and to avoid addressing the issues that others have raised in this thread. What else is new?

You're right that not acknowledging editing efforts is pretty common (at least in amateur writing circles). As I've stated several times: to the extent that this thread raises consciousness among authors that they should extend common and expected courtesies, and that acknowledging people who contribute to their project is simply normal behavior, then that's all to the good.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by dpw

Oh this was bumping along so nicely until this post.
Childish and churlish! Well well! I really don't believe I'm reading this correctly.
You are a man of years, so am I. So what? If you want to attack a guy who has responded to you like a gentleman, as he always does, then you want to grow up.
No, I'm not a mod. Yes I am a Forum Guru, as will you be after so many Forum posts. Yes I've had my run ins with mods in the forums, so what? Some may dislike me and others happen to like me, although I do question the soundness of their mind.
What are you after? I do it because I enjoy spending hours improving a story. It means I don't have to write my own because I hate writing.
I don't want to be acknowledged! A pm thanks is enough.
I don't give a rat's ass about a RR or an EP. All I want is for one person to read my crap and go and beat his meat (that sounds so sexist but you know what I meam).
If you are so good then it's your duty to help others and duty doesn't require acknowledgement.

If you want to invest hours in editing someone else's project and don't care about being extended ordinary courtesy, then I say knock yourself out.

I'm not concerned with any of these thumbs up things either. Go back and read my original post. But others have noted the discrepancy, and I can say I've noticed it too. I never submit to competitions here or anywhere else, because I simply have no interest in trophies or blue ribbons. BUT you've noticed that site people have to ascribe that jealousy to me. It's way to undermine, trivialize, and avoid issues.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by MadMartigan

How terribly "sexist" of you.

Why does public acknowledgement mean so much to you? if that's what you want, you picked the wrong profession or hobby. Publishing a piece in the real world is a notoriously difficult and painful process.

That's the reality for even the most well known authors who've gotten countless rejection slips of their work being shit or just not up to snuff.

What do you want exactly? To have LUSH mods bow down on their knees to your writing?

We don't have RR pow-wows or anything. There is, however, a panel that decides on EPs. RRs are entirely contingent upon each individual moderator and if they think a story is worthy of said RR.

We don't doll them out like candy. That would defeat the purpose.

Do you even fully understand what an RR is? It's one tiny step below EP. And EPs are EXCEPTIONAL stories. They have no technical errors, have well rounded character, well rounded plot, and show a very good skill at erotica crafting. An RR is just below that in that it may have multiple technical errors.

It's like the NFL. EPs are stud, elite WRs like Calvin Johnson. RRs are steady, #1 WRs like Torrey Smith.

Instead of bashing the system, look deep into your own stories at what is missing. Every writer misses at least something.

I personally have awarded a grand total of 3 RRs. And I've been a mod for 6-7 months. Often times, I HEAVILY edit you guy's and gal's stories. Over and over again. Most times, that takes you out of the RR running unless the story content itself moves me.

And back to this "vagina" designation. In my opinion, this is a thinly veiled, snide remark against the high quality of female writers we have. And that's just messed up.

Be better writer if not having an RR pisses you off so much. Don't insult everyone because your ego hasn't been stroked.

For the record, the reason so many mods have so many RRs, is because we recruit the BEST! We don't just recruit folks off the streets to mod.

And, I guess I'm some dickless wonder as well since my very first story on this site was awarded an RR.

I AM a dude btw.

And what makes you even think all the females on here that say they are females, are actually females?

They may not be.

You're coming quite late to the discussion, so petty much everything you've got to say here doesn't have an applicability to my purpose in starting the thread. That was simply to let potential editors know they should think before investing time in others' work. The thread has evolved as other posters have noted the discrepancies you have an objections to. And I completely understand your need to put in my mouth words I never said so as to avoid addressing those things I did say. Par for the course.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Katje
This has been quite an interesting thread to read.

Speaking not only as a story moderator here, but as an author ... Accolades are neither sought after, not required on the site for editorial effort. Those of us who spent countless hours moderating, editing and tweaking stories don't shine a great big neon sign saying "Look! I did that! They need to thank me!"

Are thanks appreciated? Of course. Unbeknownst to you, dear OP, we even have a private thread where we'll share the thank-you notes we get from writers who've we've both verified and edited for. We love that thread. And sadly, it's dusty right now from disuse. But do you see us whining about it? Or "giving a heads-up to would-be editors", warning them of the perils of anonymity? No.

We edit, tweak, assist, advise and help the writers here voluntarily. Without getting thanks, without getting acknowledgement. We do it because it brings us joy, and because we LIKE what we DO.

For me, that's enough. Knowing the little thrill I get, even as a mod, when my stories pass muster and get posted to the front page ... Just knowing I give that thrill to someone else is amazing. And I love getting even just a simple "thank you!" in response.

We're more than aware, as writers ourselves, that a story has a great amount of effort put into it, and behind it.

I do personally tag in an acknowledgement when someone helps with a story, but it's far from required. Some people don't even think to do that. Not everyone shares the same thought process.

As one of the "kids these days", I'm offended that someone of your "greatly advanced age" would fall prey to bickering and picking.

I'm far from thin-skinned, but seeing your argument from both sides of the keyboard, I find it invalid. I, personally, am not disparaging you, or your writings, but can you try and see things from the other side? Even a little? Because it certainly doesn't look like it from my point of view.

Thank you for a reasonable civil couple of posts, Katje.

It's possible you don't get much in the way of positive responses to work on stories because what you do is required. It's great that you volunteer to put some of your time into verifying. It's all optional on your part. But from the perspective of those submitting stories, sending the story through a verifier is just a not-optional step required on the way to publication. So I suppose they may look at it (I don't) as more of a barricade to get over rather than an opportunity for growth. To the extent you make suggestions that's all to the good. Most sites just reject the story and append some generic reason that doesn't really say much.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Dani
Your issue is that you didn't get your public acknowledgement, correct? That has been rectified, has it not? You received a public apology, and Possibly went on to edit her story to give you your recognition.

What's the problem now? Something about you not having a vagina? There are procedures for that. But in the meantime, you're not being punished or overlooked for not having one. I'm not even a story moderator, and I know for a fact that sex isn't even considered as a factor when verifying and dishing out rewards. That's laughable. The reception of your story is an entirely different matter. But that's based on the individuals who read, vote, and comment on your story. I'm not sure why this would be the fault of the moderating team, but I'm sure you'll find a way to tie it all in.

I understand you can only base things on your own experiences and draw your own conclusions/opinions, but to state them as fact is foolish at best. The story moderators here happen to be just a snapshot of some of the best writers Lush has to offer. So it should come as no surprise to anyone when their stories receive accolades.

As far as thin skin goes, people with far more experience in site policy only sought to correct you on things that you have said that are totally off base. Calling them thin-skinned for doing so is the equivalent of pissing in someone's face and telling them it's raining.

P.S. To those that would imply or think that those who schmooze with the moderating team have the greater advantage of receiving recognition, accolades, etc., you are sadly mistaken. From my observations, this seems to have the opposite effect.

Great. So now I get the conspiracy-theory-whacko attack.

Does anyone here have the capacity to engage with issue rather that attack and deny? To be candid (why stop now), in the first weeks after joining the site (and, as I've stated several time here, it's a quality site that I consider worth my monetary support) one of my first impressions was 'Gee, I see a lot of those thumbs up things next to stories by moderators, and there seems a sizable disparity in gender.' But everyone here seems to have decided that none of that is worth examination and thoughtful consideration. Although, someone above (without going back to look maybe it was Liz) acknowledged that there is a disparity by story category. That raised a glimmer of hope in me that perhaps the site people were capable of acknowledging that maybe there was something out of whack. But that was short lived. But if moderators' personal subject preferences are seeping into the process in story category then they certainly can as well in other areas (like gender or degree of involvement with the site). But I understand the knee-jerk is to deny rather than think.

Yes, it is nice and appropriate that Possibly belatedly appended an acknowledgement to their story. But at this point the thread has evolved far beyond that into other issues, mostly raised by others, but which seem worth discussion and exploration (as opposed to denial and attacks). But that will just be denied and dismissed, rather than intelligently engaged, by the powers that be. Such is life.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Milik_Redman

It is interesting in its duality. He claims to be wronged to the point of needing to create a public tantrum because he was not given editing credit, regardless of the fact that nowhere in the industry or this site is such credit the norm. I presume he considers this to be normal and acceptable behavior.

Then, in an unrelated bit of reasoning, he goes on to state in terms that are, frankly, grotesque, that only women get recognized. When given evidence to the contrary, he disregards it without actually refuting it and goes back to his crudely stated accusation of sexism.

Then, after having a snit about his lack of credit and his lack of reward, he strongly insinuates twice that the moderators must be thin skinned because we didn't agree.

I also noticed that he assumes as a rock-solid fact that his work justifies such a belief. I haven't read it, or if I have, it wasn't memorable enough to come to mind. Now that I think about though, perhaps that's the crux of the biscuit.

I have to say, MK, that at least you're not calling anyone a 'shit-head boob' or an 'asshole.' But I also understand (since you've evolved beyond Forum Guru to Internet Philosopher) that you also have a need to be dismissive of these issues, and, like Liz, attack rather than consider.

I started this thread with the simple purpose of giving a heads-up to would-be editors. To let them know that contributing in that way is great, but that some writers just won't (or don't understand the need to) acknowledge when another person contributes hours and effort to their project: a way to be forewarned that considerable effort may go unthanked and unacknowledged. (That simple purpose is what you've decided to call a 'public tantrum.')

But I hope the thread also has the effect of raising consciousness with writers that someone else putting great effort into your work is something to be acknowledged and thanked.

I can't speak to whether or not writers at Lush generally do or don't extend that courtesy. I hope my experience was the exception rather than the rule. But you are wrong about the industry generally. As I mentioned to another poster in another response, every writer opens or concludes their writing with acknowledgements of those who contributed to their work, especially editors.

So to the extent that all this makes writers (apparently including you) aware of basic courtesies then the effort is worthwhile.

Perhaps it's just my greatly advanced age. I really hesitate to get into a 'kids these days' type rant. But I guess you live long enough and you come to recognize and appreciate when someone does you a kindness and expends effort, talent, and skill on your behalf, and you understand that it needs to be thanked. Do 'kids these days' just not understand that basic fact of life?

Issues of fairness on the site are not among those I raised. Others did so. But to the extent that others bought them up then, yes, I've noticed similar issues. As I've stated several times in these posts: perhaps rather than attacking as a knee-jerk defensive reaction it might be a good idea to consider the criticisms with an open mind. But I'm disappointed that from the reactions this thread has gotten from the powers that be (you, Liz) that open minds are in short supply, and that attacking the messengers is the response (and that, FYI, is the definition of 'thin-skinned').

I also see you decided to make disparaging my writing (whether you've read any or not - and even if you'd had I understand you would still attack and disparage) a part of your attack. Really? That sort of thing is terribly childish and insecure.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Magical_felix

Because this thread is ridiculous. To put it simply, you are just upset that the person you edited a story for got a RR and you have not received one - that's the reason you're bitching - You then stated how much work her punctuation needed and that you changed her whole ending, trying to make her sound incompetent if it weren't for you just because she was recognized and you were not. Why do that to her, just because she received a RR and you haven't? You sound like an asshole. Especially when you say that it must be because she has a vagina. Maybe her story ideas are just better than yours and anyone could have helped her with editing and it would have received an RR anyway. Maybe you should have just asked her why she didn't credit you (if that's the reason you helped her) instead of embarrassing her here.

Again, you're being an asshole...and you expect positivity in return?

Well, so far you've managed to call overmykneenow at 'shit-head boob,' and me an 'asshole' (twice). And you're a 'Forum Guru?'

Does no one moderate these forums with the expectation of respectful and civil discourse? I've certainly been on my share of site forums, and I've found the forums at Lush to contain unusually thoughtful and respectful dialogue. Until Felix the Forum Guru decided to start typing. Do you have the capacity to interact intelligently and courteously with others?

I understand that a good way to be dismissive of all these issues is to ascribe them to petty jealousies. And if you feel a need to invent an excuse to dismiss issues rather than try to engage in a constructive and rational way then that's a shame (and rather pathetic).

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Liz
And here I thought you were going to come in here and apologise to 'Possibly' for overreacting.

All this because an author forgot to put your name on the bottom of a story? How old are you?

Okay. Well, so much for the perhaps-try-not-to-have-a-kneejerk-reaction-and-instead-give-respectfully-delivered-outside-criticism-careful-consideration-with-an-open-mind thing.

I guess that's not going to fly.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Magical_felix

What, you looking for some kind of shout-out or credit now?

Please.

Given your two posts in this thread, you don't have much (or anything) to say that's positive or constructive.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by overmykneenow

I remember a few months ago there was a few days without any RRs being given out. Being a nosey numbers geek I went back through the list and noticed that only two stories been given RR from the most recent 150 or so - both had been written by mods, in fact the only ones written by mods. Actually, one of them was by you! Both of them were fully deserving of the RR but my point is were none of the others? I'll admit I didn't read all the others but it strikes me that even the most casual of observers might have thought something was awry with that particular situation.

Now as i've said the situation has improved, I've noticed more authors I've never heard of getting RRs but I stand by what I said before in saying that the system is imperfect and until we all turn into emotionless robots it probably always will be.

I can't say I've studied the issue with the precision you have, omkn. But since I joined I specifically remember at some point thinking, 'Geez, these moderators and verifiers sure do give each other those thumbs-up things a heck of a lot.'

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Milik_Redman

I invite you to have a look at my profile page. In five years I've been awarded 8 EP's (three are now part of my ebook and are hidden) and probably as many RR's. I can name Frank Lee, Buz Bono and Jaymal who are equally recognized and we are all men.

If you want to stand out, it takes more than perfect grammar and punctuation, indeed, that isn't even a strength of mine. What it takes is a story that is creatively different and meaningful than what is normally seen. I'm afraid that arguing that having a penis somehow detracts from your ability just doesn't pass the smell test.

Thank you for the contribution, MR.

I can only speak to my own experiences, not yours.

Obviously a story takes more than grammar, usage, and punctuation. I'm quite proud of my stories (both here and elsewhere) because through many years of study and practice I've learned to write interesting characters who grow and develop, plots that hold together well, how to paint settings and moods, and how to develop a story thematically.

And I've sent some of those stories to Lush. Again, I can only speak to my own experiences, and the only conclusion I can reach based on those experiences here is that I don't have a vagina.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by Liz

Which it never has been.

I don't know if you were deliberately trying to insult the site and its moderating team, but you've managed it in a single sentence.

It may seem like a throwaway, thoughtless statement, but you imply favouritism and therefore unfairness. That has never been the case.

Okay. Well, that answers my question from my last post - thin-skinned all the way.

Really, Liz, I can suggest that perhaps it might be a good idea to give criticism at least a bit of thought and consideration. A knee-jerk defensive reaction is both unproductive and unbecoming (terribly Dick Cheney-ish).

I understand you would like to run the perfect site, and in the universe of free-access erotic story sites Lush stands out in a very positive way. It's a quality site. But people get very close to what they do, so close that often realistically perceiving what they do can be a problem. That's why outside perspectives can be valuable, and the poster to whom you responded with this brought up an objection in a respectful and constructive way. Rather than rejecting it out of hand perhaps give it some open-minded consideration.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Quote by overmykneenow

Have you ever offered your services as a story verifier? Don't wait to be asked, volunteer. That said, they may be inclined not to add you after that little outburst.

The system of RRs is imperfect but has improved a lot since it was introduced and has moved on from simply being a form of promotion for mods and their author friends.

There are advantages and disadvantages associated with your sex on this site but in all the time I've been here I've not seen it in the critical appreciation of good stories. There's always been an imbalance amongst verifiers but I think that's more down to men being too busy getting their jollies to do anything useful.

One final point I'd make - how often do you see editors getting a credit in fiction?

Thank you for the response, omkn.

I don't really have any interest in verifying or moderating. (Besides, now I've posted something that is in a very small way critical of the site - and to me the issue is not a particularly big deal. I hadn't thought of it, but I think I'll be interested to see what reaction there might be. You know, just how thin- or thick-skinned are the folks who run the site? Do I become persona non-grata or someone the site people can address with a 'yeah, we'll give that some consideration' - whether they actually do or not?) Anyway, I like editing because of the teaching function involved, which I enjoy very much. And being able to provide writers with authoritative review, correction, and advice is a contribution I can make and I'm willing to do that (although less willing and more cautious after this experience).

About editors getting acknowledgement. I've never read a book in which the editor didn't. Every book I've ever read has an acknowledgements section either before or after the text, and the editor who helped the author shape their story is always acknowledged (and usually profusely thanked).

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Holy shit. When I went to bed last night there were three posts in the thread (two of them mine).

I'm glad I started the thread as it seems to have generated some discussion and exchange of ideas, and that is all to the good.

Let me see if I can address a few issued raised. And I'm afraid I'm going to have to do it with multiple replies. I'm sure there's a way to do it all in one, but I'm too computer illiterate to know how to do that.

Advanced Wordsmith

17 Apr 2014

Thanks for the response, Wilful.

You're right that getting some sort of acknowledgement is not a good reason to go to the trouble of editing. This (writing) is one of my (few) areas of expertise. It's a large part of what my college academic background was about, and I've done some college-level teaching in writing (and some other subjects) as an adjunct. So I have a great deal to offer in terms of expertise. The editing on this story was way beyond punctuation and usage (although a lot of that had to be addressed) and into characterizations, a place in the middle of the story where the authors needed to deal with a considerable lag in erotic tension, and an ending which was very abrupt in the original. So I take a look at the story when it publishes and they used almost all of my suggestions for improvements. Then at the end there's no acknowledgement of any kind regarding the editing, but they're sucking each others dicks (imperfect analogy since one of the authors was male and the other female) about what a fabulous story they wrote. The thing even got one of those recommended read doodads (which none of my stories have ever gotten - but I've developed a sneaking suspicion that being a person-of-penis and completely vagina-less is not the way to be at Lush.)

Anyway, I appreciate the support and commiseration.

Advanced Wordsmith

16 Apr 2014

Just a word for those considering doing editing here.

At the author's request I put several hours into doing a very detailed edit on a story that recently posted (and found almost all of my corrections and suggestions for re-writing/revising/rewording were used). And there wasn't a single word of acknowledgement of my editing at the end of the story. I mean, are people at Lush really that shitty or clueless? How can you ask someone else to put hours of work into your story and not give them a very big and sincere shout-out?

Anyway 'nuf said. Partly venting and partly a heads up to potential editors that you may put hours into someone else's story and not even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement.

Advanced Wordsmith

14 Apr 2014

As with anything else in the known universe these days, you just type in what you want in the browser window and push enter. In this case 'royalty-free stock image sites.'

There are quite a few stock photo agencies that specialize in royalty-free images. I mostly use Bigstock.com. Their prices are very affordable. Most of the images I've used for my story/book covers cost less than $10 USD. I then use Word Paint to add titling. The covers are very presentable - they pass muster for inclusion on the smashwords premium list (A presentable cover is one of the few big requirements to get titles included on the premium list). The images these sites sell have a few restrictions, but none that are associated with using the images for book covers.

If you go to my profile page here you'll find all the covers in my photo albums section (and the cover to the right that acts as my avatar is a cover made in this way). Of course, they're also available for viewing on my author page at smashwords.

Advanced Wordsmith

11 Apr 2014

I have one story on here (Even Steven) that was inspired by a letter in a Dear Prudence column.

Advanced Wordsmith

7 Apr 2014

I don't think there is an rule or guideline or even a consensus. Every reader is different. Some won't get into a long story at all, and others won't want to bother with something short (and I think most readers in this category are those - who seem to be in the decided majority - that prefer well-developed stories with a plot that makes sense and characters that are deep and real).

I think the biggest factor in whether or not someone is going to read a story is category. If the story is in a category that is of interest then someone will read it, and if it's not then they are much less likely to get into it regardless of length or how it's presented.

Advanced Wordsmith

31 Mar 2014

I've found the same thing. If a story doesn't have a solid plot and interesting and developing characters then I have no interest.

From the opinions I've read here I think that's very much a majority view (although hardly unanimous).

Advanced Wordsmith

30 Mar 2014

Quote by ChrissieLecker

I find it even makes revising easier to have something new going, because it takes my mind out of the existing story and makes it easier to look at it from a distance to spot errors and typos.

You're right that a bit of distance makes it easier to really see your story (as opposed to just seeing what you expect to see). Although I find in the revision process it's more a matter of tying things together, taking care of continuity issues, and making sure things make sense. That novel was the last (or most recent, anyway) story of a seven story series. I'd written the first story for something to do. A second story naturally suggested itself, and then a third, etc. The seven stories have a continuing premise and characters and plot. So after I finished the novel I went back and did a great deal of re-writing on the previous six stories (especially the earlier ones) to draw the seven stories into a more organic whole.

Advanced Wordsmith

21 Mar 2014

I seem to be the dissenting voice here.

I don't think I've ever had more than one story in progress at a time. Sometimes while I'm in the process of writing one story an idea will occur for another. But in those cases I try to avoid doing much more than think about the details of character and plot and jot some notes until I'm done with the current project. It may be a failing, but I find trying to actively work on more than one piece at a time to be too distracting and confusing. The good part is that my writing process tends to be pretty rapid. When I envision a story I pretty much know the beginning and end right away. It's just how to navigate between the two that can be tricky. But usually I know fairly well where I want to go, and so the writing doesn't take overly long. I couldn't imaging trying to write a story piecemeal - a bit at a time without knowing the ending.

The long novel I've written (about 145k words) took just a few months of active writing, although the rewrite/revision process took a while. But once I'm past the initial active writing and am into revising I find I'm able to begin something new without too much difficulty.

Advanced Wordsmith

19 Mar 2014

I find my readers respond very positively to the literary aspects of my stories. They want and appreciate real plots and well-developed characters. Given the responses here I'd say that is typical. Others have asked before essentially the same question you've asked, and the answers typically reflect what you see here. I'd really have to surmise that the 'suck-and-fuck-fest' stories (and the readers who like them) are really more the exception than the rule.

Advanced Wordsmith

15 Mar 2014

Quote by Scriptwriter66

I have a mother in law, and my wife has a mother in law, both of them are in the same room.

Would someone watching say there's a mother in law in the room, or would they there are two mother in laws in the room?

For a third party in the room (which seems to be what you're asking about - that is, a person for whom neither is a mother-in-law) referring to a specific one of them, it would be best to be as exact as possible to avoid confusion: "Sam's mother-in-law is in the room." or "Rosie's mother-in-law is in the room." If that person were referring to both then the expression might be: "Sam's and Rosie's mothers-in-law are in the room." or "Two mothers-in-law are in the room."

That last example illustrates another principle of apostrophe usage: Use an apostrophe with each noun if separate ownership or relationship is appropriate. Use an apostrophe with only the trailing noun to indicate joint ownership/relationship.

In the example used there are two mothers-in-law in the room: Sam's and Rosie's. Consequently, they each have a relationship with one of the mothers-in-law referred to. So both noun's have an apostrophe: "Sam's and Rosie's mothers-in-law are in the room." The same principle applies to the ownership of a thing: "Sam's and Rosie's cars are in the garage." (Indicating that one of the cars is Sam's and the other is Rosie's).

But when joint possession or relationship is appropriate then only the trailing noun carries the apostrophe: "Sam and Rosie's son gets good grades at school." (Indicating that the son referred to is the son of both Sam and Rosie.) or "Sam and Rosie's books are in the bookcase." (Indicating that the books in the bookcase are jointly owned by Sam and Rosie.)

Most of it is just common sense.

Advanced Wordsmith

3 Mar 2014

I'd say go for it. I did a quick search on smashwords for 'wiccan' and came up with five title word matches and two hundred and some tag matches. So those are not any terribly great quantities for a site with 290,000 books on it. Most of the entries seem to be novella length (say 20K to 50K). Some seem to be short novel in length (60K to 80K). Fewer are short story length. But having a look through what's published on smashwords might give you an idea about what's out there now.

BTW - the same search on Lush returned ten matches out of about 30,000 stories. So you may be on to a lesser explored area.