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The Lone Score of 3 or Lower

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Guest
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Same here, Av.

I tend not to score if I don't like it - I don't like declaring openly that "I don't like this." It puts me on the spot and i don't want my personal opinion to discourage an author from writing more. That's not my purpose here. I will, however, be brutally honest when I critique people's work (like - a line by line critique of content) because then I'm helping them improve.
Guest
Lurker
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blind followers, I agree.


someone actually said it.

ABG ...thanks..
TillMorning
Rookie Scribe
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Personally, as a novice writer, I am more interested in the comments than the actual ratings per se. Obviously, no one likes a low score but I am always looking to improve.
TM
dpw
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by clum
Sadly, in my experience, authors don't ACTUALLY want to know why I felt their story deserved less than a 4.

Everyone claims to want constructive criticism, but they really just want people to blow smoke up their ass. Comments of mine have been labeled as negative and unnecessary when all I did was offer an opinion on how the story might have better captured me. I've even seen some of my more critical comments go missing.

Now, when I leave comments, I try to focus on the specific aspects of the story that I enjoyed (there's almost always at least one thing). That way, I'm still being constructive (because if I didn't comment on something, then it wasn't an outstanding aspect of the story) but running a lower risk of offending anyone, which is the last thing I want to do.

I don't think every 1 or 2 vote is "malicious" (which, in itself, if quite a dramatic word)—sometimes people just don't like it. I would NEVER assume someone had given me a low vote out of spite. I like to think I don't do things that would cause others to act so spitefully towards me. A story being awarded an RR doesn't exclude it from low votes from others—an RR is awarded by ONE person.

Bottom line, though, is that some people are cunts on the internet. You just gotta take the good with the bad, and remember that it doesn't really matter what your average score is—it doesn't actually change the quality of your story.

I'm smiling at this because I wrote to someone and asked for an honest critique.
I know my stories are ok, not bad but way below the standard of some writers.
Maybe I'm a one off. I wanted to know what was wrong, how it could have been better.
ChrissieLecker
Story Verifier
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Quote by clum
I don't think every 1 or 2 vote is "malicious" (which, in itself, if quite a dramatic word)—sometimes people just don't like it. I would NEVER assume someone had given me a low vote out of spite. I like to think I don't do things that would cause others to act so spitefully towards me. A story being awarded an RR doesn't exclude it from low votes from others—an RR is awarded by ONE person.


My experience here isn't all-encompassing, as I haven't been here all that long, but when people vote a 1 on two RRs in two different categories that were awarded by two different people, 'nuff is said.

Quote by clum
Bottom line, though, is that some people are cunts on the internet. You just gotta take the good with the bad, and remember that it doesn't really matter what your average score is—it doesn't actually change the quality of your story.


The bad thing is that a few dunderheads can vote down a story enough so it gets skipped by readers. I'm a sucker for numbers and statistic, so I did a bit of counting and comparing, and its already more than just noticeable when you have a 4.5 average after four votes compared to a perfect five. It cuts your views by half. That's the thing that sometimes grates on my nerves, not the exact number written under my story. There are, sadly, too many reasons for a low vote, even petty, childish ones like giving a four to stories in a certain category to prevent them from making the pick list, and there are even readers who write "5+" in their comments but their vote is something else. If they didn't influence prospective readers, I wouldn't mind at all, but that they take away feedback is what nags at me at times.

This is one thing that I'm thinking about time and time again. Not to get a perfect scoring system - that's not going to happen, ever. Asimov's main character in Foundation was quite right in his assessment that individual people are nice and thoughtful, but big groups behave far below their intelligence and become irrational and predictable. What I'm thinking about is how to get honest reviews that help me improve.

Yes, I do love getting fives, enthusiastic comments, RRs and private messages with praise, they are what encourages me to keep writing. But they usually only tell me what I did right, not where I could do better. Did my suspense arch suck a bit? Did my language level fit the setting? Did I overuse participles? Should my sentences be longer, shorter, or more varied? Was a character lacking description? Were my dialogues distinctive? Should I use more or less exposition? What made one story click while the one with a similar setup was just okay?

There's the often-recited saying to write only for oneself. Bollocks, at least for me. I write to put smiles on people's faces, to make them thoughtful, surprised and aroused. I write to share emotions and discoveries and, what it boils down to, happy moments. And I want to improve. Votes don't tell me how.
Guest
Lurker
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Well - Lush has strict standards unlike any other free sex story site. And recently they've tightened their requirements even further. If you look back to the past - 2008 and so on - you'll find a lot of stories that were quite rough around the edges. These can actually be used as good comparison.

Consequently, if they were rough, they were scored low. It seems fair to me based on publishing quality standards for self-pub. Of the ones I've seen -I'd hardly call the average low score unfair.

An average score of 3 means there were relatively equal numbers of scores that were 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

(I did a random search and pulled up one to see how it played out) - the story was from 2008, not all that well written, the person deep throated a toy and even vomited on herself in the end - and the story was rated with several scores of each category. In order of votes garnered for each numerical category it would be: 4, 3, 2, 1, 5.

I don't think that story having an average score of 3 was mean or unfair. It was a poorly written story with a gross ending and most people agreed.

Authors have these options:
Blocking members (as some say they've had to do) - because personal issues can skew voting.
Allow only members to vote on stories (I have chosen this option - I think opening voting to the entire Internet will invite issues).
You can disallow scoring altogether.
You can require a comment with each vote.


When you start talking about the viewing differences of stories that were scored 4.67 VS stories that were scored 4.76 - then you're going too deep and being too nitty gritty. I find it odd that Lush actually calculates it so minutely, actually.

If someone is bothered - they need to accept that perhaps they need to improve their writing. Maybe they need to step back and see how they can improve - seek out writing communities online to do some work on their style rather than negating the concept of people scoring low.

My lowest scoring story is Fine Wine - at 4.67. That hardly bothers me. It was a straight kink story incorporating several hardcore or rough edge concepts - not for everyone. MOST people scored it with a 5. 1 person gave it a 1 and 2 people gave it a 3.

I could rewrite Fine Wine and make it a 5 if I cared - because I have several stories that are 5 across the board. I know what I'm doing when it comes to erotica. Sometimes I do something I know not everyone will like. I wanted to write a quick, absolutely filthy story that would thrill me - and so I did - and the people who really like that type of extreme concept really loved it.

That's what matters: your audience.

When it comes to stories I want to be 5-star . . . I'll tune into my inner Nabokov for inspiration and get in touch with my philosophical side.
Master_Jonathan
Active Ink Slinger
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I just published a story in the cheating category that has gotten 4's and 5's from everyone except one lone score of 1. Now, I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that I can't please everyone all the time. I accept that. And if this reader doesn't feel my story deserves anything higher, that's his opinion and I'm ok with it. Quite frankly, I write my stories for me. The fact that others read and for the most part enjoy them is a delightful side-effect. So the scores are not an emotional rollercoaster for me.

But I do know that there are those "anonymous" scorers that for whatever reason like to use the shadows to downscore a story. I have been the victim of anonymous downscoring (this wasn't the case with my latest story - he did leave a comment)

Personally when I read a story, if I don't think it is very good, I won't score or comment. I don't want to demoralize anyone with their writing. I know how hard it is to put yourself out there and to have someone shoot you down in public is pretty harsh. Now I might write a private email to them explaining what I thought of the story, but I won't embarrass them in public.
DanielleX
Head Penguin
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Quote by Dani


I've always found it interesting how people want an explanation for 1-2 or maybe even 3 scores while I hardly ever see anyone wanting an explanation for a 4-5 score. I mean I get the whole 'Tell me what I did wrong' thing, and a 4-5 indicates that you did nothing wrong. But we all know that's not always the case. People track down low scorers all the time. It's rarely from a place of 'Tell me what I did wrong', and it's more along the lines of 'How dare you?!'

If I were an actual real-deal writer, I wouldn't lend much credibility to ANY score that was without feedback, whether it's a 1 or a 5. To hell with numbers, tell me what you think. If you don't do that the first go-round, I'm not gonna go through the effort of making you do it and I just won't give much regard to your scores in the future. It's really that simple.

It takes a lot of guts to provide a score less than a 4 because rest assured an author is gonna contact you, and more likely than not words will be exchanged. And some authors block low scorers and feel justified in doing so, but that's just not being honest with yourself. Accept a score for what it is and work on self. Always the best way to go.


Wise words.

I have never been so arrogant to expect straight fives. I'm always happy to get a five and if someone gives me a four I take it on the chin.

What does get me and that's why I highlighted that bit of Dani's reply was when I got ones, twos and threes but no feedback. OK, give me a two but tell me where I went wrong. Unfortunately low scoring people don't give me feedback and for that reason I adjusted my setting to force a comment upon scoring.

This has swings and roundabouts. You get fewer scores, but it pretty well eliminates low scores. If people who score low are less likely to comment, then you could argue that it's not a true reflection of the readership. On the other hand if low scores are down to semi-literate trolls, then you are just sprinkling the troll powder.

Listen to the comments, and don't put too much emphasis on the scores. The main thing is, do your best and no one can fault you.

Danny xxx

A First Class Service Ch.5

A steamy lesbian three way

clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by ChrissieLecker
The bad thing is that a few dunderheads can vote down a story enough so it gets skipped by readers. I'm a sucker for numbers and statistic, so I did a bit of counting and comparing, and its already more than just noticeable when you have a 4.5 average after four votes compared to a perfect five. It cuts your views by half. That's the thing that sometimes grates on my nerves, not the exact number written under my story.


Ahh, I don't get that many views anyway, so I guess it just doesn't bother me. I like that anyone, especially friends, will take the time to read my work.

Quote by ChrissieLecker
There's the often-recited saying to write only for oneself. Bollocks, at least for me. I write to put smiles on people's faces, to make them thoughtful, surprised and aroused. I write to share emotions and discoveries and, what it boils down to, happy moments. And I want to improve. Votes don't tell me how.


I'm with you on that—I don't only write for myself. Sure, I don't let the anticipated response of readers dictate the content of what I write, but it's certainly written with a view to impress people and bring some happiness into their lives.

I want to improve, too, and I actually do feel that votes tell part of the story. Over time, most of my stories have settled to an average of 4.8–4.9. Even a small difference in score gives me a reasonable indication of what worked and what didn't. Sure, specific comments are more useful, but I have to be own worst critic; I've got to go to that story with a 4.76 and think, "What was it about this story that didn't quite make the impact I wanted it to?"

In an ideal world, it's the stories where we're averaging 2 or 3, not the seemingly high 4.76, that we look at, but that's just not how Lush works, so you adapt.
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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frankly speaking...

i used to be in insecure writer and the scores bothered me. they also bothered my when i knew (and you can tell) when they were being malicious and just doing it to knock you down a bit. not sure exactly when, but at some point, i stopped caring. do i like the high scores? sure. we all like our egos being stroked. do i think i deserve them? nope. i can pick out several stories of mine that i deserve 4s or even 3s on. i hope that the 5s are honest representations of what people think and just not part of a popularity contest or fear that they will piss me off. when i get low scores now, i pretty much just shrug, or even laugh them off if i don't think i deserved them and then, they are forgotten. i don't do the forced comments thing, btw.

so yeah, i really don't care as long as you give me an honest opinion or an honest vote. 3, btw, is average. that's not a bad thing. there's a lot of average stories here. some of them are probably mine. anyone who blocks people or unfriends them or starts drama over a score of less then 5 probably needs to grow up a bit. lush is, and i am saying this as a mod, over generous with scores. it's part of the culture here, and that's great - it's supportive of it's writers. it's also very unrealistic. if most of us where writing for a editor or for another site, we'd have our eyes opened a bit when those 5s became a rarity rather than the rule.

smile

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Dancing_Doll
Alpha Blonde
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Quote by sprite
frankly speaking...

i used to be in insecure writer and the scores bothered me. they also bothered my when i knew (and you can tell) when they were being malicious and just doing it to knock you down a bit. not sure exactly when, but at some point, i stopped caring. do i like the high scores? sure. we all like our egos being stroked. do i think i deserve them? nope. i can pick out several stories of mine that i deserve 4s or even 3s on. i hope that the 5s are honest representations of what people think and just not part of a popularity contest or fear that they will piss me off. when i get low scores now, i pretty much just shrug, or even laugh them off if i don't think i deserved them and then, they are forgotten. i don't do the forced comments thing, btw.

so yeah, i really don't care as long as you give me an honest opinion or an honest vote. 3, btw, is average. that's not a bad thing. there's a lot of average stories here. some of them are probably mine. anyone who blocks people or unfriends them or starts drama over a score of less then 5 probably needs to grow up a bit. lush is, and i am saying this as a mod, over generous with scores. it's part of the culture here, and that's great - it's supportive of it's writers. it's also very unrealistic. if most of us where writing for a editor or for another site, we'd have our eyes opened a bit when those 5s became a rarity rather than the rule.

smile


This.

The more you write and the more you open yourself up to feedback from a variety of sources, the thicker your skin will grow. It does take time though, especially if you're used to a bubble of straight-5's.

What people have to remember is that voting is subjective and there's no piece of writing that will please everyone. You may have a technically sound story that is well crafted, but maybe some people put more weight on how the story made them feel, the content, and the characters. Maybe they didn't like the way a storyline developed or maybe they hated your characters or they thought the sex was too dull... or too dirty... too much or not enough... If you look at all the differences inherent in all of our personalities and preferences, you'll see that it's impossible for every person to read a story and think it's brilliant. Some people are also inherently more critical than others as well - their benchmark for a 4 or 5 is higher than someone who is generous with perfect scores all the time.

Go look at any internationally recognized author or profitable series of books on Amazon and try to find one that only got 5's. I mean.. Shades of Grey has made millions (billions?) and has it's own movie deal and it's only sitting at 3.5 stars on Amazon. So... you have to take it all with a grain of salt. Get a feel for what the majority think of your story, based on scores and comments and your successes, and then think about how you feel about it as well. If you love it - you're confident in what you've put out there - take pride in that and be happy. You're never going to please everyone.

You can also strive to get better at writing by relying on more than just comments. I think we all - if we are self-aware - know our own short-comings as authors. Maybe you could spend more time in editing and rewrites (ps. if you aren't already spending 2/3 of your time in this stage, trust me, you could spend more time in editing/rewrites... lol.. one of the most important things I've learned over the years!). Maybe you've read a story recently that wow'd you in some way (character development, dialogue, plot complexities etc). Study the writers you think are good, see what they do, how they craft and construct a story and try to learn from it (check out the EP or RR categories). I think it's counter-productive to assume one is "5-star perfect and awesome" with everything you write and only be self-reflective about it *if* someone gives you less than stellar feedback and suggests what you need to do differently. I'll honestly say that 100% of my growth as a writer came from the above, rather than commentary from readers. I know when I've half-assed something and when I've put in the real time and effort. In essence - you can get better as a writer on your own - if you want to. Of course, if you're just here to write and share for fun, and getting better isn't a priority, then scores and comments shouldn't cause any upset anyway - just enjoy what you're doing - that's the reward!

And lastly... there are 'malicious' voters and spite votes that will pop up in your life on rare occasion - unfortunately it's part of the internet culture. Control what you can control and try not to put all your self-worth as a writer into this kind of thing. It will only drive you nuts, and that's time far better spent on writing, sketching new ideas and just enjoying life.
Coco
Cocolicious
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I like this thread. It's remained positive and things did not happen in this one that normally does. Let me give a high five to ABG, you said what I was thinking. Let me go on the record by saying that I don't like comments that aren't helpful. And for the most part, I really enjoy comments. What I have noticed is that I love comments that the reader expresses to me WHY they enjoyed my work or WHY they didn't. The good job & hot story comments leave me with ...ehh okay, thanks.

We're an erotic story site, we like words; express yourself in the comments and you'll be high on my list...not so much if you don't express yourself. The best advice came from a mod here, she told me don't forget the five senses when I write. I got it. I went back and read her every comment on my stories and guess what...she was right. My higher scored stories were detailed when it came to the senses. I learned a lot. So when I see a 3, 4 or lower, I know one thing...I did a poor job of capturing the reader. I failed, and to me it wasn't malicious. (I can normally detect bullshit scores & ignore them unless I see that it's happened to other writers.)

I don't expect everyone to appease me by stroking my ego and giving me fives, but I know some people do, which to me is unfortunate. We need thick skins to do well at this, if you don't have one I suggest you to develop one. And for the last damn time, a 3 is not a bad score!
Lupus
Active Ink Slinger
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I can't input here much more than has already been said, so I can only give my own account of things. As I see it, agreeing with others in this thread, the scoring system is inherently broken and it really is rarely used as it should be. There is an expectation to give fives (I've seen plenty of complaints over fours too) or give nothing at all. I understand why some people feel this way, but it is counter-productive to actually improving as a writer.

There are lots of factors to take into account with scoring sex stories, obviously, although not everyone may feel the same way. Personally, I would rate your story far more on the way it was written and presented than how much I may have enjoyed what was going on. You can write a scorching hot scene, but if it's presented badly then I will think poorly of it. Others, I know, look past such things and focus only on the content. It's the culmination of these things that results in a good story; you need the precision, the flair and the content to provide a work that people can't help but enjoy. If they don't enjoy the sex or the content then you can't help that, but you can go a long way towards it by writing your story to the best of your ability. This is just a generalisation, of course, but this is what we should all be aiming for; this is what brings good stories into great stories that receive RRs and EPs.

I understand that some people post out of spite, though, with low scores. You can only ignore them and move on - it is more of a comment on themselves than it is on you. Lower scores, though? 2, 3, 4? They're honest scores, for the most part, by members who felt the story was lacking. Perhaps they're right, or perhaps they're in the minority. Personally, I would like Lush to be more honest and open with criticism and feedback. There is too much expectation of good scores. I admit to feeling the same way when I first started to get lower scores on my stories; I asked why and got a bit angry. I realised, though, that it was what I needed. A few times in my time on Lush, I've been reminded by scores, by moderators or by my friends that my quality has slipped, or could be improved upon. Yes, it's hard to take at first. It feels personal and violating. It's not, though, it's for the best and I thank all my friends and the mods who have been so honest with me in the past to help improve my quality and standard (which I feel has improved a lot).

DD and the others are right. It's easy to hold to your words and find them precious. Nobody wants to admit that their writing could improve, or should improve, but feedback like this should be the insight we sometimes need to re-evaluate your work, take a look at it and wonder where it's lacking. We should always be looking to improve as writers and as people. Critical feedback is a part of that. Maybe you won't agree with criticism you receive, and it's up to you to decide whose word to take and how much to think of it, and it will be hard to accept, but in doing so you can only ever improve and strengthen.

For me? I'd rather people were honest. If they don't enjoy my stories, I'd rather it was said and brought to my attention so that I might learn from it for the future, so that I can improve. And I want to say a thank you here to Dirty_D who has been helping to give me an honest, outsider's opinion of my writing recently. It really does help to see it through another person's eyes; we become far too attached to our own words.

(If any of you give me less than a five, I will kill you, though. Just sayin'. )
A poetry selection!
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by Shortnsassyone
Well, I have written a few poems here, love and erotic. Only wrote a couple of stories. I have to say, and agree with Mysteria, I too have been low bombed out of spite. I don't mind constructive criticism. But when I have all 5's, and get a one with a nasty comment who gives me a 1, and then have another of her friends chime in with a 2 and a snide comment, well, I will block you. Sorry mean girls, this is not high school. This is an adult site. Grow up. You don't have to like my work, or any authors work, but leave a constructive criticism. I have also received great tips in writing from the mods here, and from other Lushies. I appreciate that. I do want to improve, and am only an amateur trying to express my feelings in erotica. I hope that peeps continue to vote, express their feelings, and leave those important constructive criticisms. Sexy (()) and kisses on the cheek to all of you. ~~~Your Sassy Friend?


No it's high school. It's more like junior high sometimes.

The same mentality anyway.
prairiedogg
Active Ink Slinger
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When I write a story or poem I really don't care what the scores are. I'm simply happy that some people took the time to either score or comment on my work. And when someone I haven't met comments on one of my stories, I make every effort to send them a message thanking them for their comment. I always figured that if they took the time to do that for a stranger, then I'd better damned well find the time to acknowledge them for it.

Think about it. If one of your stories had 5,000 views and only 30 people took the time to say something with their score or comment, that means 4,970 people weren't sufficiently moved enough to do anything.
clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by Lupus
I can't input here much more than has already been said...

*writes essay*


EDIT: Also, a fun game: For those of you who have been writing a while, go back and read something you wrote maybe a year ago and ask yourself, "Does this reflect my best work? Would I give this a 5? What could/should I have done differently?"

Be your own critic, and fuck the rest. Literally.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by Coco
I like this thread. It's remained positive and things did not happen in this one that normally does.


I think it's it's because I specially pointed out that this wasn't an angry rant thread like most of these turn into. A good foundation in starting anything is key. I didn't come off angry, so people didn't enter the thread with angry words.
Dirty_D
Head Nurse
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Quote by clum


EDIT: Also, a fun game: For those of you who have been writing a while, go back and read something you wrote maybe a year ago and ask yourself, "Does this reflect my best work? Would I give this a 5? What could/should I have done differently?"

Be your own critic, and fuck the rest. Literally.


Shit, I look at my older stuff now and just shake my head. the story in my signature right now is a good case in point, (Still, not the newer one) I hadnt read it in ages, but it was one I had always want to do as an audio. As i read it I couldnt help but see all the things that the story lacked. Some of it I changed where it was very obvious, but other bits, I left as they were. Im not going to do a complete revamp, these stories show me how far I've come. and I hope that as I keep progressing, some day I'll llook back and think the same about the stuff Im producing now.

Quote by Lupus

For me? I'd rather people were honest. If they don't enjoy my stories, I'd rather it was said and brought to my attention so that I might learn from it for the future, so that I can improve. And I want to say a thank you here to Dirty_D who has been helping to give me an honest, outsider's opinion of my writing recently. It really does help to see it through another person's eyes; we become far too attached to our own words.




You are very welcome.

In my turn I have to thank someone who has helped me: Delphi. If it wasn't for her lovely bitchy eyes teaching me things I should be aware of when I edit, my writing would be much poorer indeed.
Lupus
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by clum


EDIT: Also, a fun game: For those of you who have been writing a while, go back and read something you wrote maybe a year ago and ask yourself, "Does this reflect my best work? Would I give this a 5? What could/should I have done differently?"

Be your own critic, and fuck the rest. Literally.


Why do you hate me, sir? *Pouts*

Call it a talent perfected through years of writing actual essays. You learn to drag a topic from anything, don't you?

Or maybe I'm an opinionated cunt.
A poetry selection!
clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by Lupus
Or maybe I'm an opinionated cunt.


Maybe.
MerryDeath
Active Ink Slinger
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I've had it happen several times where I choose a score, then use my arrow keys to scroll down, and accidentally change the score from 4 or 5 to 3 or even 1 I am sorry, and the first time it happened, I asked for it to be fixed, but never heard back, so I've moved on with my life. I'm also more careful (patient) and wait for the score to load fully, first!

SixtyMinuteMan
Advanced Wordsmith
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I'm probably the harshest critic of my work, so generally if a two lands I think "Okay, mate, fair cop. I didn't like that wordy bit in the middle either."

I do much prefer them with explanation, though. If you're going to lob a low score at someone's labor of love, taking a couple minutes to explain why seems like basic courtesy.