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Am i really that unattractive?

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SamBrown
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Quote by BigJay23



Thank you so much, that is what im looking for advice like that, but how do i stop myself from getting friend zoned? I always seem to get it, even with people i just met


It seems to me that your only problem Jay is that you need to learn how to flirt. Is it possible that to avoid the chance of getting burned you don't expose yourself to any risk and dry up when you should be spewing witty banter. That is how most of us end up in the dreaded 'friend-zone'

Nothing beats experience so why not join a dating website or two. Over a six month period invite as many women as you can out for a coffee or similar and practice flirting. Look up corny chat-up lines on the net, try them out. Do they work for you? Try being direct. Try being self-deprecating, in short find what works for you. If these are casual one-off dates then you can go down in flames spectacularly without it mattering at all.

By the time your six month trial is up you will either have already found Miss Right or you will be better placed to catch her when you do meet.
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by She
Jay was looking out of his league, but not better or worst..he was just not fishing in the pool of women who are attracted to his type of guy.


This is an important consideration. Everybody who is looking for somebody is fishing in a pool and has competition from others who are fishing within that pool. As I see it, for a heterosexual male, there are four main pools to consider

Undesirable - Ineligible -- Don't touch that.
Undesirable - Eligible -- Don't want to touch that
Desirable -Ineligible -- Can't touch that
Desirable - Eligible -- All that's left

Things that make women Ineligible include
Already committed to some other guy
Homosexual
Not local
Incarcerated
Celibate

Things that make women Undesirable include
This is a highly subjective thing. It could include smokers, women with children, wrong religion (or too much or too little religion), too old, dregs of society, too something or not enough something. This is where a guy could find someone if he broadened the pool he fished in to include some from the Undesirable - Eligible pool. Otherwise, he's stuck with the Desirable - Eligible pool and the competition there is the fiercest.

Keeping in mind that the heterosexual women are also fishing in pools they define subjectively, a guy who has negatives (as perceived by a large percentage of the Desirable - Eligible women) is going to be in fierce competition with a lot of guys for the small percentage that find him attractive.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Mazza


I never took offence at your sweeping generalisation, I just found it surprising that not only does someone think that way, but had the (what I deem) poor judgement and lack of class to 'say it out loud'.

I can honestly say that I've never encountered anyone, male or female, who behaves that way.

I don't see how such a statement as the one you made can possibly be either conducive to the thread or helpful to the OP. surely such negativity is what we are trying to avoid?



First, it isn't a sweeping generalization. It only applies to those that it applies to. It isn't misogynistic because it isn't a generalization about all women or even most women. It is about the subset of women that it is about.

If you have never encountered anyone who behaves that way, maybe it's a US thing. Lots of stuck-up wannabe parasites here.

As to what we are trying to avoid, I'm trying to give the OP some perspective. To the OP, avoid women who are prone to assuming that specific statements are sweeping generalizations, unless you love incessant bickering. If you get friend-zoned by women who aren't helping you to have a happier life, you're better off kicking them to the curb.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MadMartigan
Raised on Blackroot
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Bro. You ran yourself smack into a brick wall.

Better to just cease and desist at this point.
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Magical_felix
Thinking this way about women or anything in life really will just make you fail at everything.


A false premise. My statement only applies to the women it applies to. Think about who is likely to be left for any length of time in the "single and looking" pool. You'll find a lot of the women I referred to there competing with each other for Mr. Perfect because they worry more about what their girlfriends will think about their guy than whether they deserve the respect of the guy they're pursuing or are capable of earning the trust and respect of the guys they're rejecting.

This may be a stretch, to assume you have female friends, but how many of them have you helped find boyfriends?


Several, and considering that I don't seek a lot of friendships, that's something.

I mean "getting what they want?" Like what?


A piece of your life that they haven't earned and don't even try to earn. Extroverts are often like that. Most women and most men are extroverts.

I mean, don't you do favors for your male friends? Do you expect your male friends to suck your dick if you help them move or something?


No, but I would not keep doing them favors if they never did me favors. Would you? That's not a rhetorical question. I would like an honest and relevant answer.

Why is there a double standard for attractive women?


The only double standard is in your imagination.

How come doing a normal friend gesture or favor for a woman you find attractive somehow obligates her to have sex with you, go out on a date with you, or be your girlfriend?


False assumption not relevant to what I said. They can find other ways to return a favor. many don't bother. They just act entitled to favors, for as long as you let them get away with it. Those are the ones to kick to the curb.

What if a woman you were just not attracted to but was your friend all of a sudden hit you with, "Uniball, I take you to the airport, I have you over to my parties, I make you food, I listen to you bitch and moan about your life, I am such a good friend to you... BUT you don't want a sexual relationship with me, why are you using me like this? If you don't start putting out, I'm kicking you to the curb."


False assumption not relevant to what I said. The rest of your questions, following from that false assumption, are irrelevant. I've had and have platonic friendships with women who did not fit the parasite description. I'm advising the OP to learn protect himself from those who do. And when I was seeking a gf, I found many who did.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
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Quote by MadMartigan
Bro. You ran yourself smack into a brick wall.

Better to just cease and desist at this point.


A brick wall of denial? It wouldn't be the first time that happened.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
malebox
Active Ink Slinger
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No. Not at all. You have a face for radio.
Kiera
Short Arse Brit
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I agree I think he looks a bit like Zach Galifianakis and he has a huge following.

Im a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone, the waiting can be frustrating I know but the right person will come along for you I am sure, have you perhaps considered a Lush relationship to tide you over? Its not something I personally do but I have several friends here who are in happy loving relationships and it works for them.

Also Id like to commend you for this forum, it must have taken a lot of courage to post it, Im sorry that it has been spoiled for you by the minority, I hope that our advise helps you in some small way and I wish you well in your search for love.

Kiera x

The Duchess of Tart

Please check out my new story, co-written with the amazing Wilful.

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/long-time-coming.aspx

And my latest poem, The Temptation.

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/the-temptation.aspx
LadyX
Artistic Tart
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Looks like I missed out on group therapy again...
creekdaddy
Active Ink Slinger
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My 2 cents:

Even though I haven't read this entire thread, I gotta say I'm pretty damn impressed with the overall quality of the advice, thought, and suggestions given and with much good karmic intention, to boot. You should go through all of whats been offered (and I mean every last bit like you were studying for a final) gather what makes the most sense to your gut on a harshly objective level, and really take it to heart. Then make a plan to slowly but consistently put these things into action. And I don't necessarily mean put these things into action totally directed at pursuing women; put things into action directed at making some changes in - and within - you. Ideas are great but where the rubber meets the road is in the implementation of those ideas. And yes, clearly this is the really hard part, but as a rule, nothing much gets accomplished without hard work. The best definition of luck that I know is: the coming together of opportunity and preparation - nuff said.

Now as for a few random points just coming from me; don't feel alone in the world or shitty about yourself because you're having a hard time "getting a girlfriend" as you put it in your original post. I am, and have been for at least 4 years now, in a similar boat. My story leading up to this point has little in common with yours, I'm sure, but I have not been in any sort of relationship at all during that time. Now I haven't exactly been pursuing that like focused fiend, but I have really, really wanted some sort of connection and have been constantly open to becoming involved either casually or something much deeper. The results: I have had maybe 6 "dates" and slept with exactly 3 women and not particularly successfully in each case... in the past 4 or 5 years. Yeah, I am sorta picky but nowhere near THAT picky, LOL!

Granted I'm not very financially endowed, which these days it seems to me, sadly, a huge handicap at least for the first 10 - 15 yards of a 100 yard race (the finish line being having established an ongoing relationship with someone you want to be with). As for other criteria, I have a good family name in my community, I'm intelligent, exceptionally kind and respectful, well educated, a great conversationalist and cook, I'm pretty fit and trim (my avatar is really me and I'm pushing 50 hard), I have always been told that I'm handsome, not infrequently I've had random people both male and female say to me something like "I bet you have more ladies after you than you know what to do with... blah, blah, BLAH.

Without going into the whole, long story, I suffered a number of truly shitty circumstances at regular intervals over 10 or 15 years, at work, in my personal & family life, and in my marriage (now divorced). The result is that this series of events did a real number on my CONFIDENCE. Sure a few of those shitty circumstances were at least partially self-created and that I can accept and deal with, its part of being an adult. Most, however, had nothing to do with my abilities, performance, intentions, actions, etc.

I have always been a good guy, optimistic, friendly, confident in myself, and comfortable with who I am as a person. Now, though, I carry around a slightly shaken confidence sometimes, but I've worked hard on repairing the foundation that cracked inside. Still working at it and making progress, but lemme tell you it doesn't happen overnight. I guess what I'm saying is that I believe, quite strongly, that in situations like "trying to get a girlfriend" the vast majority of people subconsciously project important things like confidence - or lack thereof - no matter how hard they try not to. So you have to approach yourself from the inside out to get at and address the problem you're having. Unless one has the skills of DeNero, it's next to impossible to act through it.

Having said that, though, over the sort haul sometimes it helps to have a serious talk with yourself and come to the conclusion that you really like yourself just fine and you don't GIVE A SHIT about what other people think, see or hear with regard to you. Sometimes it helps a lot to just put a smile on your face, a happy song in your heart, say Fuckem !, and go out and just be yourself and have fun doing it. And for pete's sake, whatever you do don't try too hard when interacting with a woman you find attractive.

Hope I've given you something worthwhile to consider....
WellMadeMale
Constant Gardener
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This is a nice romantic belief... but I don't buy into it either.

Quote by kiera
Im a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone, the waiting can be frustrating I know but the right person will come along for you I am sure.
Kiera x


What is true is that there is someone for everyone to settle for or with. And maybe you can grow to love that person. Maybe you might even fuck them sometimes (or vice-a-versa).

The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
latinfoxy
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Quote by 1ball
The thing is, you probably have victim written across your forehead in an invisible tattoo that only women can see. Many women are little more than parasites, given the chance. They measure their self-worth by how much attention they can get from men and how hot of a bf they can attract. Even if they don't want to be with you, they could be helping you find a gf, but they're getting what they want from you, so why should they? You really don't want to know them, at least not on their terms. If they don't want to meet you halfway, kick them to the curb.


You must be such a joy to hang out with! I cant think of the reason why you are divorced!
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by 1ball
A false premise. My statement only applies to the women it applies to. Think about who is likely to be left for any length of time in the "single and looking" pool. You'll find a lot of the women I referred to there competing with each other for Mr. Perfect because they worry more about what their girlfriends will think about their guy than whether they deserve the respect of the guy they're pursuing or are capable of earning the trust and respect of the guys they're rejecting.


Thinking any woman or anybody is that simple is a false premise... It actually shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of woman because thinking like this makes me feel you only know them from an ignored, bitter distance.

A piece of your life that they haven't earned and don't even try to earn. Extroverts are often like that. Most women and most men are extroverts.


Your response when I asked you to explain what you meant when you said women are "getting what they want" when they are being "parasites" on you.

Thinking people need to earn anything from you, or need to respect you before you show the same to them... Narcissists are often like that.

No, but I would not keep doing them favors if they never did me favors. Would you? That's not a rhetorical question. I would like an honest and relevant answer.


I don't keep tally in the game of life. I am often in a position where I can help someone that can't help me. No, I do not hold it over their head until they return a favor, a favor I don't need. That's not friendship. That's a business partnership.

False assumption not relevant to what I said. They can find other ways to return a favor. many don't bother. They just act entitled to favors, for as long as you let them get away with it. Those are the ones to kick to the curb.


It's very relevant. Since this topic is about dating. Not favor trading...

Some people need more help than others. To be honest, the reason you should help or do a favor for someone is to simply help them, that should be your "reward". I mean if you save someone from drowning do they now owe you their life? At Christmas do you compare how much the gift you gave cost compared to the gift you received? Do you then feel slighted if the gift you gave was more expensive?

I've had and have platonic friendships with women who did not fit the parasite description. I'm advising the OP to learn protect himself from those who do. And when I was seeking a gf, I found many who did.


OP, don't listen to this. If you wish to get a GF, counting the things she does for you before you help her out will not endear you to her.

What if one of your plutonic friend's life takes a turn for the worse and now they need your help? More than a few times. Are they now taking advantage of you? Are they being parasitic? You think it's the right thing to do to let them suffer when you can help, even if you will get nothing in return?

False assumption not relevant to what I said.


The only thing that isn't relevant is you to half of the population.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by LadyX


Looks like I missed out on group therapy again...


You crack me up. You are wildly intelligent, yet you possess humility.
You have passion, yet display restraint.
You have strong opinions, yet express them reasonably.
You have beliefs that you've examined, and principles you seem to live by.
I have seen you stand up for yourself, and defend others.
You're funny as Hell.

Those are all extremely attractive qualities.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Oberon


You crack me up. You are wildly intelligent, yet you possess humility.
You have passion, yet display restraint.
You have strong opinions, yet express them reasonably.
You have beliefs that you've examined, and principles you seem to live by.
I have seen you stand up for yourself, and defend others.
You're funny as Hell.

Those are all extremely attractive qualities.




She can be a bit of a fuckhead at times though.
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by latinfoxy


You must be such a joy to hang out with! I cant think of the reason why you are divorced!


I'm not. Jumping to false conclusions seems to be a common thing here.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by 1ball


I'm not. Jumping to false conclusions seems to be a common thing here.


latinfoxy
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by 1ball


I'm not. Jumping to false conclusions seems to be a common thing here.


I was sure that i have read you complaining about an ex wife at some thread, maybe i was wrong. But im pretty sure im not wrong about the other part!
VanGogh
Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado
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I had wondered where that troll was hiding .... guess this thread was just a perfect place for the troll's commentaries (as offending as they are!!)

The troll will ALWAYS try to get a rise out of anyone .... maybe he has not much of a life outside of lush.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by latinfoxy


I was sure that i have read you complaining about an ex wife at some thread, maybe i was wrong. But im pretty sure im not wrong about the other part!


If anything, you could have read that he found his soulmate, that he is living life that he has choseen for himself and not what society suggests or demands. That means that he is well off and inteligent enough to do so, of course.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by 1ball


This is an important consideration. Everybody who is looking for somebody is fishing in a pool and has competition from others who are fishing within that pool. As I see it, for a heterosexual male, there are four main pools to consider

Undesirable - Ineligible -- Don't touch that.
Undesirable - Eligible -- Don't want to touch that
Desirable -Ineligible -- Can't touch that
Desirable - Eligible -- All that's left

Things that make women Ineligible include
Already committed to some other guy
Homosexual
Not local
Incarcerated
Celibate

Things that make women Undesirable include
This is a highly subjective thing. It could include smokers, women with children, wrong religion (or too much or too little religion), too old, dregs of society, too something or not enough something. This is where a guy could find someone if he broadened the pool he fished in to include some from the Undesirable - Eligible pool. Otherwise, he's stuck with the Desirable - Eligible pool and the competition there is the fiercest.


This make sense to me.

Quote by 1ball
Keeping in mind that the heterosexual women are also fishing in pools they define subjectively, a guy who has negatives (as perceived by a large percentage of the Desirable - Eligible women) is going to be in fierce competition with a lot of guys for the small percentage that find him attractive.


Exactly. I think that realising who you are is key thing. Is not the point better or worse, but what Jay can bring to the table and to learn with what he can work with.
Complaining that he is not attractive enough in a pool that find his qualities unattractive is useles, it is waste of time.
CharlotteRusse1
Active Ink Slinger
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Lots of polite, thoughtful answers here. I'll post some shallow, offhand advice:

- Join a regular (few times a week) exercise class
- Shave the facial hair
- See a dermatologist
- Cut your hair very short as it makes the receding hairline less apparent
- Get your teeth whitened

Now all of this is all surface stuff, but if you start to look at lot different, it may very well make you feel different and take a different approach. Looking better, or even just different, and feeling healthier can increase your confidence. Confidence is attractive.
An old favorite story of mine: The Chaise Lounge
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Magical_felix
if you save someone from drowning do they now owe you their life?


No, because you did that for your own reason, for how you would feel about yourself if you didn't. But being host to a moocher is a different thing. Would you advise both the men and women of this world to stay in unrewarding relationships? Or just the men?

At Christmas do you compare how much the gift you gave cost compared to the gift you received? Do you then feel slighted if the gift you gave was more expensive?


No to both, but I don't think you're doing someone any real good if you're letting them be dependent on you for support. It stunts their emotional growth and you're probably getting something creepy from the relationship. Maybe you enjoy or need something that you get from that kind of relationship, but I don't.

What if one of your plutonic friend's life takes a turn for the worse and now they need your help?


They'll get what I think they deserve from me. If I give them more than I think they deserve from me, I'll feel as bad as if I gave them less.

Are they now taking advantage of you? Are they being parasitic?


Maybe and maybe, if I give them the chance to. If that happened to you, would you dedicate your life to their happiness at the expense of your own?

You think it's the right thing to do to let them suffer when you can help, even if you will get nothing in return?


Do they have a claim on my life? A right to make me their servant? What about their situation requires sacrifice beyond what I think they deserve from me?
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by 1ball


A bunch of sad bitter stuff.



Read what you said over again. Then read it again. It's sad 1ball. Your outlook is laced with anger. Seems like you lack empathy and love in your heart. Reflect on your words and think about how you relate to people, for your own good.
1ball
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Magical_felix


Read what you said over again. Then read it again. It's sad 1ball. Your outlook is laced with anger. Seems like you lack empathy and love in your heart. Reflect on your words and think about how you relate to people, for your own good.



I didn't think you would have the balls to answer my questions. Do you lack the ability to be intellectually honest? Or are you just not interested in abandoning intellectual dishonesty? I relate to people as equals, neither inferior or superior to me. Some people appreciate that. Others have entitlement beliefs. Are your friends entitled to unlimited sacrifice from you? Are you entitled to unlimited sacrifice from them?
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
FallenPrince
Rookie Scribe
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Ironically when I first came to this thread it was to see who the original poster was, to see if I might offer my 2 cents but I ended up reading nearly every post to this thread in their entirety. (except Shylass' posts, not because she had less valuable advice; quite the reverse actually. I just didn't want to read novels so I skimmed her posts for major points and moved on.) I digress however, my original point was that I found a lot of great advice from a lot of different people of varying backgrounds and points of view. I know that the posts were not for me directly, but I just felt the need to thank everyone anyway including Jay for starting the thread. I did not originally join Lush with the intent of making friends here, I joined primarily to read stories because reading is a passion of mine. However after reading this thread I have come to realise that perhaps I have been denying myself a very valuable resource for advice and help in not actively trying to make friends here . So in the near future I hope to make a few friends and use the advice I have picked up here to work building a better me.
My dream sex fantasy: A holosuite, programmed with nothing but erotica...now that would be fun.
Guest
Lurker
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(I know I'm responding late - but I can't resist myself) You think you're great, loving, nice, supportive, caring.

Maybe they don't think so?

You're asking complete strangers 'what's wrong with me' and we have no idea how you are as a person. Your friends, do, however, and so without broaching the idea of dating one of them - ask their opinion and their advice.

If they are your true friends, they will be able to help you.

And I will be the ultimate bitch, violate PC norms, be honest - and say: don't shy from the idea of improving overall health and fitness.

You need to figure out how much your weight plays a role in your life. Is it just a part of you? Or does it dictate your life too much, limit your outlook, and pull you down.

I've struggled with both ends of the scale: being extremely underweight and being extremely overweight. One's personality and positive outlook on life plummets when they can't even make it up a few flights of stairs. That's where I was a few years ago - and though I never again will even WANT to be my 'target/ideal' weight - I did lose weight on my mission to becoming healthier (huge difference between being 'thin' and being 'healthy' - I'm heavy and healthy)

Ever wonder why some guys find women who are heavy beautiful? Ask them . . . read posts on this forum. Appealing-overweight is because they're CONFIDENT with their selves and their physical self. They just happen to be heavy, and it's a side issue because it doesn't stop them from doing anything they want.

Analyze yourself (KNOW THYSELF) and figure out how much it is an element for you to contend with - and consider dealing with it if you decide it IS a factor.

Which brings us back to your friends: they obviously care about you or they wouldn't be your friend - ask them for genuine advice and input and be open to what they say. Try to see yourself how they see you, and how others might see you.
FitBusinessPro
Active Ink Slinger
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Personal fitness can work wonders. I've never been mentally sharper, more confident, and happier than I am now. Find an activity (or activities) that are relatively inexpensive, easily accessible, and enjoyable. You may surprise yourself.