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"I'm Not Allowed To..."

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Ravyn
Cock Connoisseur
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Quote by overmykneenow
Subs and "masters" invariably have deep rooted insecurities: what says "don't leave me"/"don't let me go" more than tying someone up?

For the sub, putting those rules up is as much a declaration of ownership over their "master" as it is a statement of submission. Honestly, replace the word "master" with the word "bitch" on these profiles and they pretty much read exactly the same.



Wow......Seriously??
ByronLord
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Ravyn


Wow......Seriously??


Seriously, yes. I don't play as a sub because I don't really crave that much attention.
Shylass
Gingerbread Lover
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I am now wondering if I can be both a sub and a Domme (are they the correct terms? Is a female thingy a Domme?). But for myself. So that way, depending on my mood, I could tell people I can't chat cos my Domme says I can't, and when I want to, my Domme (in my head) can make me sound all witty and sexy predatory and stuff. Do they do training for Dommes (not the one that may or may not be in my head)? Do subs get training, or is that what the Domme does? The more questions I think of, the more confused I get. I haven't even started on the pain thing yet. I think some of you are going to get some PMs about that issue.
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MistressS
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by Ravyn


Wow......Seriously??


That was my immediate response too,

Quote by ByronLord

Seriously, yes. I don't play as a sub because I don't really crave that much attention.


Subs don't all crave attention. Some do, but that is because that is the kind of person they are, not because they are subs. In my experience, most subs are relatively shy.
Ravyn
Cock Connoisseur
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Quote by ByronLord


Seriously, yes. I don't play as a sub because I don't really crave that much attention.


Then my Wow applies to you as well. Not all subs crave attention........My original Wow was to hes ENTIRE post not just the first part.
MoonlightSerenity
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Quote by Shylass
I am now wondering if I can be both a sub and a Domme (are they the correct terms? Is a female thingy a Domme?). But for myself. So that way, depending on my mood, I could tell people I can't chat cos my Domme says I can't, and when I want to, my Domme (in my head) can make me sound all witty and sexy predatory and stuff. Do they do training for Dommes (not the one that may or may not be in my head)? Do subs get training, or is that what the Domme does? The more questions I think of, the more confused I get. I haven't even started on the pain thing yet. I think some of you are going to get some PMs about that issue.


You can, they are known as Switches. And Dommes can undergo training if they wish, but places that do so are usually hidden from view so you'd have to go looking. And sub's are usually trained by their Dom/me if I'm correct (I'm still in my training collar)
Teased and Tormented -My very first story and competition entry is now up!
JesseS
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To get back to your original questions, there are nearly as many variations of the "BDSM lifestyle" as there are couples in it. Several of those with profiles that say they can't talk w/o permission can be found chattering away in various rooms. For most it is fantasy, the sub is 'forced' to endure being pleasured or giving pleasure etc. Some folks, like myself, have experience with the club scene, and for most it is something done, at most, a few times a month. Some have tried living it full time, but I don't know anyone who has suceeded for more than a few weeks.
Sensei
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Quote by JesseS
Some have tried living it full time, but I don't know anyone who has suceeded for more than a few weeks.


There are lots of full-time TPE relationships that last years. It's a symbiotic thing, that much is certain. I just finished a story about the start of such a relationship. Yes, that story is fiction, but it is based in truth. The relationship that Lucy and Sean have in the epilogue is not at all unlike TPE relationships that exist in the real world.
My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
Shylass
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by Sensei


There are lots of full-time TPE relationships that last years. It's a symbiotic thing, that much is certain. I just finished a story about the start of such a relationship. Yes, that story is fiction, but it is based in truth. The relationship that Lucy and Sean have in the epilogue is not at all unlike TPE relationships that exist in the real world.


Sorry, what's "TPE"? I've probably just overlooked it, but I can't see it.
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redlips
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I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO confused!!!
Why, Shylass, why???
You are giggling aren't you?
If you ignore beauty, you will soon find yourself without it.................Frank Lloyd Wright

I always practice obedience, when it's in my best interest.
Shylass
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by redlips
I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO confused!!!
Why, Shylass, why???
You are giggling aren't you?


Why what? Why do I have so many questions? Why do I want to know stuff? Why am I confused? Or... the last one? I was trying to think of what TPE could stand for, but I only got as far as "Toilet Paper End" and "The Pimping Edge". I don't even know what the last one is, they were just words that fit.
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Red_Dragon
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Here is the final answer to this a real Dom/Dommes gives rules to see how loyal their sub is to them. Do they really respect their Master/Mistresses wishes and do they really want to please them. Most times these rules have nothing to do with Jealousy but what is one of the Dom/Dommes main responsibilities to protect their sub.
Red_Dragon
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And as to a Master or Mistress having insecurities that is false a true one is quite secure in their Lifestyle
redlips
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I don't know what TPE stands for either, so it was definately a good question. It was just that the more I read on the thread the confuseder was my head.

Red Dragon gave a good answer explaining the why for the rules and it is pretty easy to understand that there are few ways to determine if an online sub is indeed obeying so that would be one test.

My giggling comment was not meant to offend, but was just that I was so I thought maybe someone else was also.
If you ignore beauty, you will soon find yourself without it.................Frank Lloyd Wright

I always practice obedience, when it's in my best interest.
MistressS
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by Shylass


Sorry, what's "TPE"? I've probably just overlooked it, but I can't see it.


TPE stand for Total Power Exchange, it typical refers to those who live as Dom/me and sub 24/7, as apposed to those who have short 'scenes' or keep BDSM to their bedroom.
Shylass
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Thank you very much, Red_Dragon.

I am learning that everybody has a different answer depending on their own viewpoint and experiences. Not being confident myself, I find it hard to empathise with a Master or Mistress if I look at them from your point of view. Is a Master/Mistress the same as a Dom/Domme, please?

What exactly are they protecting their sub from? Other people? Themselves? Situations? A mixture?



Quote by redlips
I don't know what TPE stands for either, so it was definately a good question. It was just that the more I read on the thread the confuseder was my head.

Red Dragon gave a good answer explaining the why for the rules and it is pretty easy to understand that there are few ways to determine if an online sub is indeed obeying so that would be one test.

My giggling comment was not meant to offend, but was just that I was so I thought maybe someone else was also.


Welcome to my world! I do an awful lot of giggling. Always at inappropriate times.
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Guest
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I think that the amount of freedom a submissive has is related to the degree of trust in them by their domme/dome to be loyal. *thinks for a moment then sighs* I must not be very trusting then o.o,
Shylass
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Quote by CuriousKitty
I think that the amount of freedom a submissive has is related to the degree of trust in them by their domme/dome to be loyal. *thinks for a moment then sighs* I must not be very trusting then o.o,


Interesting. Some have said elsewhere that the two must trust each other implicitly in order to be in that kind of relationship. I don't trust at all (generally), although I might begin to when I know a person a little better, but if one has to lay rules because they don't trust the other? I struggle with that concept. I thought the rules thing was more about submitting to the control, as opposed to fear of them cheating? Or is it the same thing?

I'm not sure if I am holding up the Dom/Domme - Sub relationship too closely against a more "vanilla" relationship?

I may have just confused myself more.
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sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by CuriousKitty
I think that the amount of freedom a submissive has is related to the degree of trust in them by their domme/dome to be loyal. *thinks for a moment then sighs* I must not be very trusting then o.o,


i think you are just the exact amount of trusting, Mistress - of course, i am biased. smile

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

1ball
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Quote by Shylass


Interesting. Some have said elsewhere that the two must trust each other implicitly in order to be in that kind of relationship. I don't trust at all (generally), although I might begin to when I know a person a little better, but if one has to lay rules because they don't trust the other? I struggle with that concept. I thought the rules thing was more about submitting to the control, as opposed to fear of them cheating? Or is it the same thing?

I'm not sure if I am holding up the Dom/Domme - Sub relationship too closely against a more "vanilla" relationship?

I may have just confused myself more.


It might help if you look at it differently. Most of the people I've met who have dominant personalities are almost like addicts. They need to control and are dependant on the people they control. Sometimes they resent that dependence and they overcontrol with tighter rules. The submissive people I've met are addicted to knowing their place, where they fit into the relationship, because having a place gives them a sense of worth and knowing their place, through the rules and tasks they are given, is how they know whether they agree with their Dom's opinion on their worth.

If you have neither need, you may be addicted to self-control and it may be hard to understand the other needs. That seems to be the case with you, Shylass. Your desire to command or obey seems low, but your desire to set and protect your position as an independant actor seems high.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by 1ball


It might help if you look at it differently. Most of the people I've met who have dominant personalities are almost like addicts. They need to control and are dependant on the people they control. Sometimes they resent that dependence and they overcontrol with tighter rules. The submissive people I've met are addicted to knowing their place, where they fit into the relationship, because having a place gives them a sense of worth and knowing their place, through the rules and tasks they are given, is how they know whether they agree with their Dom's opinion on their worth.

If you have neither need, you may be addicted to self-control and it may be hard to understand the other needs. That seems to be the case with you, Shylass. Your desire to command or obey seems low, but your desire to set and protect your position as an independant actor seems high.


You may want to reword that, as it is going to offend almost everyone who is in the lifestyle.
Being a Domme myself, I have never felt I 'need' to have control over my sub, I enjoy being her Mistress, but I do not need to be. Nor has any Dom/me I have ever met, felt they 'need 'to control others.

Those who have Dom/sub relationships, it is a choice, it is something they both enjoy. It is certainly not a need, those who need to control others, tend to be abusive, and that is certainly not what the lifestyle is about. As for subs needing to be controlled, I don't know any sub who cannot function without someone to control them. There are some subs, who will feel lost or confused without their Dom/me, but (as far as I've seen) this is only the case for subs who are in a relationship and are used to having their Dom/me controlling them, subs who haven't got a Dom/me are typically just like anyone else is.
Ravyn
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Someone please delete this post.
Ravyn
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Quote by 1ball

1ball wrote:
It might help if you look at it differently. Most of the people I've met who have dominant personalities are almost like addicts. They need to control and are dependant on the people they control. Sometimes they resent that dependence and they overcontrol with tighter rules. The submissive people I've met are addicted to knowing their place, where they fit into the relationship, because having a place gives them a sense of worth and knowing their place, through the rules and tasks they are given, is how they know whether they agree with their Dom's opinion on their worth.

If you have neither need, you may be addicted to self-control and it may be hard to understand the other needs. That seems to be the case with you, Shylass. Your desire to command or obey seems low, but your desire to set and protect your position as an independant actor seems high.


You couldn't be further from the truth in what you said. As a submissive I am still a very much a strong woman and I do NOT need to be controlled. It is a choice that I make and a gift to the one who receives it. As for it being an addiction, with the right Master/Mistress its much more then that, much deeper than the rush that the word addiction brings to mind.


Quote by MistressS

You may want to reword that, as it is going to offend almost everyone who is in the lifestyle.
Being a Domme myself, I have never felt I 'need' to have control over my sub, I enjoy being her Mistress, but I do not need to be. Nor has any Dom/me I have ever met, felt they 'need 'to control others.

Those who have Dom/sub relationships, it is a choice, it is something they both enjoy. It is certainly not a need, those who need to control others, tend to be abusive, and that is certainly not what the lifestyle is about. As for subs needing to be controlled, I don't know any sub who cannot function without someone to control them. There are some subs, who will feel lost or confused without their Dom/me, but (as far as I've seen) this is only the case for subs who are in a relationship and are used to having their Dom/me controlling them, subs who haven't got a Dom/me are typically just like anyone else is.


Very well said MistressS.
Shylass
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by 1ball


It might help if you look at it differently. Most of the people I've met who have dominant personalities are almost like addicts. They need to control and are dependant on the people they control. Sometimes they resent that dependence and they overcontrol with tighter rules. The submissive people I've met are addicted to knowing their place, where they fit into the relationship, because having a place gives them a sense of worth and knowing their place, through the rules and tasks they are given, is how they know whether they agree with their Dom's opinion on their worth.

If you have neither need, you may be addicted to self-control and it may be hard to understand the other needs. That seems to be the case with you, Shylass. Your desire to command or obey seems low, but your desire to set and protect your position as an independant actor seems high.


Woooooaaaaaaaaah! Let's just back up here a bit!

I am simply trying to understand a lifestyle or certain preferences (depending on how one chooses to look at it). It's something that interests me, yes, but not as a participant. I know full well it's not a situation I would be happy in. I am merely trying to understand the draw for others, and to attempt to get into the mindset so that I can understand it, not be part of it.

I was a person who felt they were nothing, a smear of poo, somebody who agreed to pretty much anything because it was what other people wanted, and it was easier to submit to their choices and decisions that try to fight my own corner and get beaten down for it. As I got older, there were times when I chose to submit because I could see the value of the rules/guidleines/decisions offered to me - I did so, not always happily, but willingly, because I could see the good of them. Then, because of my job, I had to command and discipline (not in sexual ways, I might add!) in a variety of scenarios, taking the lead, placing the boundaries, and looking after people. I have met a great many different people in my life, and I understand what you are saying all too well, except for what you mean by "independant actor".

I am slowly just beginning to surface after an extremely rough time in my life, and I know that power plays or situations such as I am asking about is not for me, however you choose to judge or view me on how I post. But I have always been interested in psychology and how people interact with each other. Sex is a subject I know very little about, and I am simply trying to learn about it. This is just one facet of it, and it is not for everyone.

I am simply wanting to understand, not participate. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong idea, but that is how I feel. I just want to understand.
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sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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i have said it before, and it seems it bears repeating. in MY experience, the sub is usually the one with a need for control. most of the really good Dom/mes i have experience with are NOT control freaks - they are confident and giving and very caring men and woman who are able to look at a subs needs and act upon them. i know that, i my case, my Mistress tailors her actions to a large degree upon what i need, translating my actions and words or even my unspoken words, and acting upon them. she pays attention and gives me what i need - it's a lot of work, and she does it with a great degree of patience and she is GOOD at it. she's never abusive and she is careful with me.

the control comes in that i choose to give myself to her, i dictate, to a degree, what goes on in the relationship, and i KNOW that i can slow things down or put a halt to them at ANY time i so choose. in a sense, i am the one who controls what happens during our sessions, be it overtly or subltly - i give her power of me - and i do that because she has earned my trust. That is what defines a good Dom/me. Trustworthiness, NOT control. i call total Bullshit on the 'addicted to control' line - that's not how a good Master/Mistress operates.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

1ball
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Quote by MistressS


You may want to reword that, as it is going to offend almost everyone who is in the lifestyle.
Being a Domme myself, I have never felt I 'need' to have control over my sub, I enjoy being her Mistress, but I do not need to be. Nor has any Dom/me I have ever met, felt they 'need 'to control others.

Those who have Dom/sub relationships, it is a choice, it is something they both enjoy. It is certainly not a need, those who need to control others, tend to be abusive, and that is certainly not what the lifestyle is about. As for subs needing to be controlled, I don't know any sub who cannot function without someone to control them. There are some subs, who will feel lost or confused without their Dom/me, but (as far as I've seen) this is only the case for subs who are in a relationship and are used to having their Dom/me controlling them, subs who haven't got a Dom/me are typically just like anyone else is.


I suppose the key to knowing whether my statement applies to you or to any other individual in the lifestyle is to ask yourself the question, "How strong will my cravings be if I do not get what I desire." That is where the parallel to addiction comes in. There is nothing more common than an addict in denial who defines addiction to exlude their own behavior. I'll stand by my statement that truly dominant personalities need to control. If that excludes you then it means that you don't have a truly dominant personality, but whether that is the case for you or many others in the lifestyle is dependant on your response when what you desire is taken from you. If your sub(s) go away, will you seek more? How much less fulfilling will your life be without them? Is it truly a take-it-or-leave-it thing for you or will the pressure steadily build until you either get another sub or become very unhappy? Only you know the answers to those questions, but I've met Doms and subs who will slowly self-destruct until they find what they crave, just like addicts. They weren't simply play acting, they were goal seeking.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by 1ball


I suppose the key to knowing whether my statement applies to you or to any other individual in the lifestyle is to ask yourself the question, "How strong will my cravings be if I do not get what I desire." That is where the parallel to addiction comes in. There is nothing more common than an addict in denial who defines addiction to exlude their own behavior. I'll stand by my statement that truly dominant personalities need to control. If that excludes you then it means that you don't have a truly dominant personality, but whether that is the case for you or many others in the lifestyle is dependant on your response when what you desire is taken from you. If your sub(s) go away, will you seek more? How much less fulfilling will your life be without them? Is it truly a take-it-or-leave-it thing for you or will the pressure steadily build until you either get another sub or become very unhappy? Only you know the answers to those questions, but I've met Doms and subs who will slowly self-destruct until they find what they crave, just like addicts. They weren't simply play acting, they were goal seeking.


As I said, I do not need to be in control, I enjoy it, but I don't require it. I would still be very happy if my sub was just my girlfriend. Those who truly NEED to be in control are abusive to their partners. they are not Dom/mes, all they care about is the control, a true Dom/me cares about their sub, they look after them.

I suggest you remove your posts here, and read up more on the lifestyle before you try to comment on it, and try listening to those who actually have experience in it.

Either way, it is evident you are not going to believe me, and I would rather not continue this, as you are just going to piss me off greatly.
1ball
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Quote by Shylass


Woooooaaaaaaaaah! Let's just back up here a bit!

I am simply trying to understand a lifestyle or certain preferences (depending on how one chooses to look at it). It's something that interests me, yes, but not as a participant. I know full well it's not a situation I would be happy in. I am merely trying to understand the draw for others, and to attempt to get into the mindset so that I can understand it, not be part of it.


I didn't mean to imply otherwise, Shylass. I'm only pointing out that you might not be able to understand it without understanding the underlying needs. We each are a balance of master-slave-loner. Our happiness is tied to to how well we achieve the balance. Some people see this triangulation as leader-follower-loner, but the leader can be a slave and the follower can be a master. That is why the sub in a play-acting relationship is often in a postition of greater power and is often more able to take-or-leave the lifestyle than the Dom. They are emulating the slave, but setting the rules for the ruler. They hold the key to power by exercising their ability to walk away when their desires are not met. My point it that you appear to be balanced toward the loner point of the triangle and thus not understanding the needs that drive the behavior of the others.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
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Quote by MistressS

I suggest you remove your posts here, and read up more on the lifestyle before you try to comment on it, and try listening to those who actually have experience in it.



I'll let my comments stand. If you reread them carefully, you'll see that I was speaking to the underlying motivations of people who have truly dominant or submissive personalities. If that does not apply to you, you have nothing to be pissed about. I was attempting to help one who is struggling to understand the trust issue. The line between use and abuse is set by the sub in a play acting relationship and that can be the one with the actual dominant personality.
My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by 1ball


I'll let my comments stand. If you reread them carefully, you'll see that I was speaking to the underlying motivations of people who have truly dominant or submissive personalities. If that does not apply to you, you have nothing to be pissed about. I was attempting to help one who is struggling to understand the trust issue. The line between use and abuse is set by the sub in a play acting relationship and that can be the one with the actual dominant personality.


This thread is about the trust between Dom/mes and subs, if your comments really weren't aimed at Dom/mes and subs, and I highly doubt they were not, then they aren't really relevant to this thread, and the wording of it has offended myself, and several others in the lifestyle.