Why are We so Polarized?

Quote by Magical_felix

I can read between the lines too.

So you dont believe affirmative action is a real thing? You dont believe that companies that are hitting some kind of diversity targets like, let use United Airlines as an example considering human safety is pretty important, where they are wanting new pilots to be a certain percentage of a particular race and gender rather than picking "the best" pilots? I dont know about you, but I dont want a pilot flying my plane with my family on it who only got the job because they met some DEI target. I want the best pilot. Sure I dont agree with him using the words "white people", but how other is he going to make is point because those DEI positions are taking the jobs away from people who are qualified on merit and the merit of white people. I find that racists in itself that a DEI hire gets picked if I am more qualified. Imagine me, or any other white person on this site going for a position only to find out you didnt get the job not because you werent qualified, but because of the companies DEI program. Id be pissed as fuck and I should not be the only one. And well done for doing a 30 second google search and pulling the first thing you found from a lefty journalist who hand picked those comments that have little to no context as to how the rest of those conversations went because I know you didnt watch those episodes and draw the same conclusion. And why are they posting those? To justify his killing? Just a side note. There was zero violence in the streets after his murder. Also, who here owns a gun? For the record, I dont like the second amendment or agree with it.

I know this last one is really going to test your attention span, but you really only need a few minutes, so hang in there for me for just a few moments.

Quote by SydneySider
I dont want a pilot flying my plane with my family on it who only got the job because they met some DEI target.

I find that racists in itself that a DEI hire gets picked if I am more qualified.

First off, even if airlines are making some effort to diversify their workforce and considering race, gender or economic background, no one hiring on as a pilot "only gets the job because they met some DEI target" (those are your words). There are still very high minimum standards. I'm a middle-aged white guy, and even in a completely colorblind application process, I'm pretty sure I can't just go get a pilot job. Please engage your brain and think about how the hiring process for a pilot might actually work. The Righties have been making this specious argument pretty loudly for several years now, so if you think you're somehow making an original case, you're not.

Second, racism and discrimination are different words with different meanings. If "DEI hires" are getting picked over more qualified white males, and you have not proven that this as a widespread thing, then that is (by definition) Discrimination. But also by definition, unless it is serving to perpetuate the subjugation of an underprivileged race - and we white people don't qualify as an underprivileged race, under any reasonable interpretation - then that is not racism. You can scream "discrimination" if that happens, but you don't get to scream "racism." Learn your words.

Quote by SydneySider

So you dont believe affirmative action is a real thing? You dont believe that companies that are hitting some kind of diversity targets like, let use United Airlines as an example considering human safety is pretty important, where they are wanting new pilots to be a certain percentage of a particular race and gender rather than picking "the best" pilots? I dont know about you, but I dont want a pilot flying my plane with my family on it who only got the job because they met some DEI target. I want the best pilot. Sure I dont agree with him using the words "white people", but how other is he going to make is point because those DEI positions are taking the jobs away from people who are qualified on merit and the merit of white people. I find that racists in itself that a DEI hire gets picked if I am more qualified. Imagine me, or any other white person on this site going for a position only to find out you didnt get the job not because you werent qualified, but because of the companies DEI program. Id be pissed as fuck and I should not be the only one.

All the people who make this argument never had an issue when white skin was what made one qualify as the preferred candidate for a job, which was all of American history up untill affirmative action. And then probably still some.

You really believe that before affirmative action was a thing, all the best candidates just happened to be white? LOL.

Quote by SydneySider

So you dont believe affirmative action is a real thing? You dont believe that companies that are hitting some kind of diversity targets like, let use United Airlines as an example considering human safety is pretty important, where they are wanting new pilots to be a certain percentage of a particular race and gender rather than picking "the best" pilots? I dont know about you, but I dont want a pilot flying my plane with my family on it who only got the job because they met some DEI target. I want the best pilot. Sure I dont agree with him using the words "white people", but how other is he going to make is point because those DEI positions are taking the jobs away from people who are qualified on merit and the merit of white people. I find that racists in itself that a DEI hire gets picked if I am more qualified. Imagine me, or any other white person on this site going for a position only to find out you didnt get the job not because you werent qualified, but because of the companies DEI program. Id be pissed as fuck and I should not be the only one. And well done for doing a 30 second google search and pulling the first thing you found from a lefty journalist who hand picked those comments that have little to no context as to how the rest of those conversations went because I know you didnt watch those episodes and draw the same conclusion. And why are they posting those? To justify his killing? Just a side note. There was zero violence in the streets after his murder. Also, who here owns a gun? For the record, I dont like the second amendment or agree with it.

I know this last one is really going to test your attention span, but you really only need a few minutes, so hang in there for me for just a few moments.

What an idiot

Quote by SydneySider

So you dont believe affirmative action is a real thing? You dont believe that companies that are hitting some kind of diversity targets like, let use United Airlines as an example considering human safety is pretty important, where they are wanting new pilots to be a certain percentage of a particular race and gender rather than picking "the best" pilots? I dont know about you, but I dont want a pilot flying my plane with my family on it who only got the job because they met some DEI target. I want the best pilot. Sure I dont agree with him using the words "white people", but how other is he going to make is point because those DEI positions are taking the jobs away from people who are qualified on merit and the merit of white people. I find that racists in itself that a DEI hire gets picked if I am more qualified. Imagine me, or any other white person on this site going for a position only to find out you didnt get the job not because you werent qualified, but because of the companies DEI program.

Fuck it, I'll bite.

So your use of pilots is so interesting because it's of course, indicative of exactly why I hate Charlie Kirk and everything he ever stood for. This is a direct result of his own words being used to justify racism. Full disclosure, I didn't watch the videos you linked because I don't need to. I don't get my political stances predigested and regurgitated for me like a baby bird.

Here are some facts for you:

• All licensed pilots must meet the same standards regardless of colour.

• There is a real pilot shortage - as in there aren't enough of them in America.

• There is no evidence that safety standards have been officially lowered for DEI reasons.

• DEI programs in their current iteration target access and recruitment, not standards.

Please feel free to fact-check this.

What DEI is trying to do is fill that gap providing more opportunities for previously disadvantaged communities but Charlie Kirk misrepresents that to fit his white nationalist narrative, and rather than doing a basic fact check, you all eat it up like absolute lemmings and call him a hero. He's insinuating that standards have to be lowered because people obviously are not qualified while he knows that's not the case. Any person capable of critical thought would google this and say hey, that sounds fishy why would airlines open themselves up to massive litigation for lowering standards but you white nationalists just don't. It's all oKKK to you that racial injustice is being committed because you don't think calling somebody suspicious or doubting their credibility based on no evidence and just because they are black is wrong.

Saying you don’t want a DEI hire flying your plane is like saying you don’t want a pilot who went to college on a scholarship. It’s not relevant if they’ve met the same standards. Many many many white doctors have received scholarships, do you ask them if they paid for their own education? If anything, DEI ensures that meritocracy actually works, because opportunity isn’t being quietly gatekept by money.

TL/DR You’re angry about an imaginary threat because people like Kirk framed fairness as anti-white, and you didn’t fact-check him. You're why people like him are so dangerous because you have no critical thinking.

Edited to add, this is just one example, he is a repeat offender and idiot so don't think I picked it because this was the only time he was wrong

Quote by PrincessC

Fuck it, I'll bite.

So your use of pilots is so interesting because it's of course, indicative of exactly why I hate Charlie Kirk and everything he ever stood for. This is a direct result of his own words being used to justify racism. Full disclosure, I didn't watch the videos you linked because I don't need to. I don't get my political stances predigested and regurgitated for me like a baby bird.

Here are some facts for you:

• All licensed pilots must meet the same standards regardless of colour.

• There is a real pilot shortage - as in there aren't enough of them in America.

• There is no evidence that safety standards have been officially lowered for DEI reasons.

• DEI programs in their current iteration target access and recruitment, not standards.

Please feel free to fact-check this.

What DEI is trying to do is fill that gap providing more opportunities for previously disadvantaged communities but Charlie Kirk misrepresents that to fit his white nationalist narrative, and rather than doing a basic fact check, you all eat it up like absolute lemmings and call him a hero. He's insinuating that standards have to be lowered because people obviously are not qualified while he knows that's not the case. Any person capable of critical thought would google this and say hey, that sounds fishy why would airlines open themselves up to massive litigation for lowering standards but you white nationalists just don't. It's all oKKK to you that racial injustice is being committed because you don't think calling somebody suspicious or doubting their credibility based on no evidence and just because they are black is wrong.

Saying you don’t want a DEI hire flying your plane is like saying you don’t want a pilot who went to college on a scholarship. It’s not relevant if they’ve met the same standards. Many many many white doctors have received scholarships, do you ask them if they paid for their own education? If anything, DEI ensures that meritocracy actually works, because opportunity isn’t being quietly gatekept by money.

TL/DR You’re angry about an imaginary threat because people like Kirk framed fairness as anti-white, and you didn’t fact-check him. You're why people like him are so dangerous because you have no critical thinking.

Edited to add, this is just one example, he is a repeat offender and idiot so don't think I picked it because this was the only time he was wrong

You forgot that people with titties are also DEI hires according to Kirk and the slack jawed hayseeds who listened to him.

Also he says that there was no violence after Kirks death because apparently conservatives don't have a violent bone in their body... But there was literally a guy who stalked and killed two teenage girls because they "talked shit" about charlie kirk. He literally says that is the reason in one of his youtube videos.

This genius SydneySider will deny it though or talk about how he just "feels" that companies are lowering their standards to give blacks and women jobs.

And thank you for wasting your time and now mine with this moron.

Quote by Magical_felix

And thank you for wasting your time and now mine with this moron.

Sorry, I missed where I lit the twat signal in the sky?

I responded to his post, I figured an intersectional answer including gender would be lost on him but I mean rinse repeat the formula: people listen to bigoted idiots that match their internal biases so they sound right, they don't fact-check - hey presto you have a dumbass. Conservatives aren’t usually persuaded by evidence, they’re reassured by recognition, which is why they hate universities, they don't recognise books.

Quote by PrincessC

Sorry, I missed where I lit the twat signal in the sky?

I responded to his post, I figured an intersectional answer including gender would be lost on him but I mean rinse repeat the formula: people listen to bigoted idiots that match their internal biases so they sound right, they don't fact-check - hey presto you have a dumbass. Conservatives aren’t usually persuaded by evidence, they’re reassured by recognition, which is why they hate universities, they don't recognise books.

You have a twat signal?

Sidney - GFY - I was on to you 8 years ago, you fucking facist. I was surprised that Nicola championed you - to me. You are, like Damion used to sling... GARBAGE PEOPLE. Schmuck.

When the British Empire was always in the sunshine somewhere in the world they were a small island with a tiny population compared to Queen Victoria’s Empire. How did they control the colonies with their tiny military?

Technology and polarization were key. Their navy was supreme. And they kept indigenous colonial peoples fighting amongst themselves. Keep us fighting ourselves and we won’t notice them taking our freedoms.

Quote by S7williams

When the British Empire was always in the sunshine somewhere in the world they were a small island with a tiny population compared to Queen Victoria’s Empire. How did they control the colonies with their tiny military?

Technology and polarization were key. Their navy was supreme. And they kept indigenous colonial peoples fighting amongst themselves. Keep us fighting ourselves and we won’t notice them taking our freedoms.

You’ve made an excellent point - fight among ourselves while the leaders enrich themselves. Those that support the MAGA movement are being hurt as much or more than those that oppose it by this administration. Maybe they’ll figure it out some day. Or maybe they’ll go to their graves thinking this admninstration somehow made the world and the country better.

Woodstock was a seminal moment and I wasn’t there. I did attend a regional Chicagoland wannabe festival. In our innocence, we believed that love would be stronger than anything else. We may have underestimated the power of greed and lots of government cash.

I watched as one-by-one of my Chicagoland manufacturing clients lost their businesses and livelihoods to their clients outsourcing their tasks to China. Welders, pattern-makers, and mold-makers, were outsourced to China. All that was left were immigrant assembly-line workers whose only skill was to put part A with part B for minimum wage. I don’t care who does it. The outsourcing of American jobs and wealth must stop. Someone has to support and promote American workers.

I want people to evaluate our leaders by their actions, not by what some newsreader tells them reality is. If Biden did something good that helped American workers, we should support it. Likewise, if Trump does something that helps American workers, we should support it. A political party should be irrelevant when evaluating outcomes of actions. We need to evaluate facts not regurgitate polemical rhetoric fed to us by others .

Critical thinking is a skill that seems to be disappearing.

Sorry for soapboxing🤓

Quote by S7williams

Woodstock was a seminal moment and I wasn’t there. I did attend a regional Chicagoland wannabe festival. In our innocence, we believed that love would be stronger than anything else. We may have underestimated the power of greed and lots of government cash.

I watched as one-by-one of my Chicagoland manufacturing clients lost their businesses and livelihoods to their clients outsourcing their tasks to China. Welders, pattern-makers, and mold-makers, were outsourced to China. All that was left were immigrant assembly-line workers whose only skill was to put part A with part B for minimum wage. I don’t care who does it. The outsourcing of American jobs and wealth must stop. Someone has to support and promote American workers.

I want people to evaluate our leaders by their actions, not by what some newsreader tells them reality is. If Biden did something good that helped American workers, we should support it. Likewise, if Trump does something that helps American workers, we should support it. A political party should be irrelevant when evaluating outcomes of actions. We need to evaluate facts not regurgitate polemical rhetoric fed to us by others .

Critical thinking is a skill that seems to be disappearing.

Sorry for soapboxing🤓

That’s all well and good but change is policy-led in a democracy so like, it does matter who it is. Obviously.

Ignoring political praxis and corporate interests for personality politics and lip-service is exactly how you got here.

Quote by PrincessC

That’s all well and good but change is policy-led in a democracy so like, it does matter who it is. Obviously.

Ignoring political praxis and corporate interests for personality politics and lip-service is exactly how you got here.

You make a great observation!

I agree that change can be policy-led, and other factors can also lead to change.

I also agree that we should pay attention to the actions of political and corporate interests, lest we allow ourselves to be manipulated by them.

When you say “how you got here”, am I correct to assume that when you say “got here” you mean “here” to be our current polarized state (i.e. liberals and conservatives with rigid ideologies, with each not really interested in understanding the other side)?

Quote by S7williams

When you say “how you got here”, am I correct to assume that when you say “got here” you mean “here” to be our current polarized state (i.e. liberals and conservatives with rigid ideologies, with each not really interested in understanding the other side)?

Not just polarisation. I mean material outcomes like deindustrialisation, hollowed-out labour, and policy capture by corporate interests, fascism. Reducing that to people not understanding each other or trying to say it should be non-partisan is exactly the misdirection I’m talking about. You have to make it about party lines and you have to interrogate those lines and you have to dismantle them. It’s not mere misunderstanding it’s a fundamental difference in principles at an electorate level. Trying to circumnavigate them when they are so deeply embedded in your landscape is both intellectually weak and politically impossible.

Quote by S7williams

Woodstock was a seminal moment and I wasn’t there. I did attend a regional Chicagoland wannabe festival. In our innocence, we believed that love would be stronger than anything else. We may have underestimated the power of greed and lots of government cash.

I watched as one-by-one of my Chicagoland manufacturing clients lost their businesses and livelihoods to their clients outsourcing their tasks to China. Welders, pattern-makers, and mold-makers, were outsourced to China. All that was left were immigrant assembly-line workers whose only skill was to put part A with part B for minimum wage. I don’t care who does it. The outsourcing of American jobs and wealth must stop. Someone has to support and promote American workers.

I want people to evaluate our leaders by their actions, not by what some newsreader tells them reality is. If Biden did something good that helped American workers, we should support it. Likewise, if Trump does something that helps American workers, we should support it. A political party should be irrelevant when evaluating outcomes of actions. We need to evaluate facts not regurgitate polemical rhetoric fed to us by others .

Critical thinking is a skill that seems to be disappearing.

Sorry for soapboxing🤓

For jobs not to get outsourced, people will need to be willing to pay more for the US-made goods. And for that they need to earn higher wages, which in turn will make US-made goods even more expensive. Unless perhaps, you make the wealthy pay their share, prohibit them from taking all the profit for their personal gains, and instead make those profits work for greater good.
Unfortunately Capitalism, and especially the US-version of it, has turned into some religion of egocentrism, greed and exploitation.

Quote by S7williams

When the British Empire was always in the sunshine somewhere in the world they were a small island with a tiny population compared to Queen Victoria’s Empire. How did they control the colonies with their tiny military?

Technology and polarization were key. Their navy was supreme. And they kept indigenous colonial peoples fighting amongst themselves. Keep us fighting ourselves and we won’t notice them taking our freedoms.

Girl, what?

I missed this. Take it from someone who lives in post-colonial South Africa and cannot let such a clear miscategorisation of history stand: they used force. Also, what the fuck is an “indigenous colonial people”??????

“Divide and conquer” isn’t how empires are formed, it’s how they’re managed once consolidated power already exists. The formation phase relies on coercion, violence, and selective buy-in from local elites after resistance is crushed.

They set up concentration camps here. They weren't smart strategists they were brutes with guns and a tendency to sexually assault locals as a means of punishment. Let's decolonise history folks.

The minority will not accept the fact that they are the minority.

Quote by noll

Unfortunately Capitalism, and especially the US-version of it, has turned into some religion of egocentrism, greed and exploitation.

Agreed

Capitalism is a system for the allocation of goods and services, like Communism, or Socialism or Name-your-ism.

So … if we move it back one step - whatever created the reality in which we find ourselves - it is a place where we are all forced to be killers and/or takers.

With the exceptions of water and mother’s milk, in order to live, we must kill something to eat it or we will die. It was an evil entity that created our reality 😒. Even if we wait for fruit to fall from the tree before we eat it, we are depriving the seed of that fruit from becoming the next generation of that organism. We must accept that we are killers or takers and move on.

Will we be as polarized if we accept the reality to which we have been condemned, ignore the brainwashing our governments are subjecting us to, and listen to each other, recognizing that we all kill other life forms in order to survive?

No one can claim moral superiority. Let us all listen to each other and ignore the government’s and media’s attempts to divide us.

Quote by S7williams

With the exceptions of water and mother’s milk, in order to live, we must kill something to eat it or we will die. It was an evil entity that created our reality 😒. Even if we wait for fruit to fall from the tree before we eat it, we are depriving the seed of that fruit from becoming the next generation of that organism. We must accept that we are killers or takers and move on.

I'm always kinda wary when people start using survival metaphores when talking about economic systems. Yes, we need to consume other organisms in order to survive, but that doesn't mean we have to accept infinite greed and exploitation. We don't and we shouldn't.

Social Darwinism has nothing to do with survival of the fittest. The latter is how natural selection works, where organisms that best fit their local environment are more likely to reproduce, thereby passing on their genes, while the former is just a bad excuses to exploit others and take whatever you can. It has nothing to do with natural selection, but all the more with laissez-faire capitalism, imperialism and fascism. It's Trump and his cronies believing that the western hemisphere is theirs to take and control.

If there's anything we must accept then it is that we're a social species, that we're in it together, and that we need other organisms for our survival, and so we depend on their survival too.

Quote by noll
If there's anything we must accept then it is that we're a social species, that we're in it together, and that we need other organisms for our survival, and so we depend on their survival too.

Totally agree.

So why are people polarized if the underlying principals are agreed? I cannot say anything more because I may have had a whiskey or whisky. Love to you all. I may or may not explain further after I sober up. I am being beckoning to bed and cannot keep her waiting too long (I'm not that good after all!!)

Quote by S7williams

Totally agree.

So why are people polarized if the underlying principals are agreed? I cannot say anything more because I may have had a whiskey or whisky. Love to you all. I may or may not explain further after I sober up. I am being beckoning to bed and cannot keep her waiting too long (I'm not that good after all!!)

I don't see the agreement about the underlying principals that you seem to see. Many people, including POTUS, seem to believe in might makes right, imperialism and fascism. Others totally disagree, for obvious reasons I'd say.