Quote by Chryses

Were those true, they would only be ridiculous. The serious occasions are more worrying.

such as?

Quote by Chryses

I am sure we all know of incendiary language from both sides of the political spectrum.

yep. i mean, just last week, Seattle enacted a law to ban straight people from using public bathrooms. next week we're going after people not dressed in drag.

Quote by Chryses

If the representatives you refer to only represent a minority, you would have a strong argument. As much anti-discrimination law has been legislated during the last few years, I suggest those representatives have not limited their representation to any particular minority.

I am sure we all know of incendiary language from both sides of the political spectrum.

so, in other words, your conclusion is that straights hate LGBTQ+ people. i imagine that includes you?

Quote by Buz

Everyone should treat everyone as they themselves would like to be treated.

If you give out kindness to everyone you come in contact with, you'll, by far, mostly receive kindness in return.

Try to ignore jerks being rude. Do not respond to them. I've worked hard on doing this myself over the last few years.

I do think that most of the aggression and hate aimed at transgender people is politically motivated. The same is true for that aimed at the rest of the LGBTQ community. Rightwing politicians are spewing hate to get the votes of a large undercurrent of bigotry that still exists.

no, no you won't. that's experience speaking. people who are anti-lgbtq aren't going to respond to kindness by being kind. they are are going to continue to hate and to discriminate and to perform acts of violence no matter how you treat them - and many of our leaders are fostering this mindset, sadly. they are saying that it's ok to be anti-lgbtq and that leads to more violence and more discrimination. i am done being nice. if you're coming at me with that mindset, i am not going to turn the other cheek. it's why i now own a handgun. it's why i have lost "friends". and it's why i don't put up with that shit anymore. ignoring the jerks just gives them permission to go on being jerks. fuck that shit. if they want confrontation, they are going to get confrontation.

Quote by Beffer

It's a mistake to generalize that straight people as a whole are LGBT phobic.

if you're not speaking up against homophobia, you are tacitly supporting it. do i believe that all straight people are homophobic? no. of course not. so, if you're not, prove it. act. be an ally. speak up when you see an incident. do the right thing. i;m not black but if i see an incident of racism, i say something. same goes with any minority. any other response is supporting racism. same goes for homophobia. am i a hard lining bitch? you betcha i am. do i want to be? not really. i'd much prefer we all get along. unfortunately, it's not a choice for me. you have to take a stand.

Quote by DanielleX

I honestly disagree. I can't answer for the USA but I don't think there is widespread homophobia in the UK. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I think there is general acceptance. Thinking overall from my lesbian and gay friends they are not experiencing regular prejudice or hate, if at all. Definitely not saying it never happens to anyone but by and large it's not a major thing. I don't know hundreds of same sex attracted people but if there's widespread homophobia in the UK then it's being covered up by the media and victims are failing to speak out.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-hate-crime-and-discrimination

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/lgbtq-facts-and-figures

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/recorded-homophobic-hate-crimes-soared-in-pandemic-figures-show

Quote by KimmiBeGood

It wouldn’t be for me because I try to treat everyone kindly and fairly. Not all straight people hate people with different sexual orientations. And I’m sorry people have hurt you.

of course not for you - i hope you didn't think i meant differently, and i'm actually more upset at the people hurting others - i can take care of myself just fine. not everyone is as resilient.

Quote by Ensorceled

Done with both seasons. I loved it but you are right, SUPER stressful. That star-packed family dinner is awesome (Jamie Lee Curtis!!!)

i had to actually stop watching that one after about 15 minutes and watch the rest later, just too much crazy for my brain! i loved Richie's arc, btw, he really redeemed himself towards the end.

Quote by Just_A_Guy_You_Know

The Indian moon landing (in about 15 minutes) is being shot on a Bollywood sound stage.

i expect proper choreography then

Quote by KimmiBeGood

I have always thought that fear is the root of all hate. So I’ve asked myself what do the haters fear from gays, trans. The only thing I can come up with is straight people fear your numbers will grow, if you are supported, to where one day you will be the majority and straight people will become the minority. No one wants to be in the minority in the U.S. because everyone sees how minorities have been treated throughout history.

it would certainly be hellish to all of a sudden start being treated like you've been treating others, wouldn't it.

Quote by DanielleX

Here in the UK there is a lot of heated debate regarding gender. I don't hear about a lot of hate/prejudice directed towards gay or lesbian people tbh.

then you are not listening very hard.

Quote by Chryses

I will tell you this because it seems no one else will.

 

The best you can hope for in your lifetime is there will be some improvement in the social acceptance of non-heterosexuals. This beneficial change will be greater in some locales and less in others.

 

Many years ago, the German physicist Max Planck declared that science advances one funeral at a time. The (grand)father of quantum physics noted, “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

 

Using the above as a guideline, Race is an example of how slowly and how quickly social change takes. The modern effort to change race relations started in Brown v Board, fifteen years before the Stonewall Riot, and no one considers that issue resolved.

 

Adults have, by and large, learned how to live with the society they have grown up in. Few welcome rapid changes, and it is unwise to expect them to update their POVs any more rapidly than they must. When people feel they are being pushed too far or too fast from their norms, those people will fight to preserve what they are familiar and comfortable with. Ref here your comment in re backlash. You recognize those social norms by acknowledging it is not your place to out someone.

 

Referring back to Prof. Planck, I make no recommendations, for my social milieu is sufficiently different from yours for the two to be incommensurate.

edited

i am okay with change being slow. that is the nature of the beast. what i am not okay with is our elected officials using their power to represent the far right minority to enact laws that actively harm the people they are supposed to represent, as well as foster an atmosphere where hatred and violence are used to slow down or stop that change.

Quote by ElCoco

Who's the "you" who stirred people up?

"you" is often, as in this case, used to refer to any person in general.

Quote by ElCoco

I think you're not looking at what the issue was. The issue wasn't about being forced to bake a cake. The issue was whether the law forced her to express an opinion she disagreed with. Right or wrong, she thinks marriage is something that happens between a male and a female, and the law said she had to create something celebrating a marriage between a male and another male.

she's not expressing an opinion. she's merely baking a cake. that doesn't mean she approves or disapproves. she can continue to disapprove (and continue being a bigot) after they pick up their cake

Quote by Ironic

I'm glad to read you're trying to improve things. You seem upset or angry about other people's opinions, even though you can't do anything about what they think about other people. I don't think that anger is productive or healthy.

There's lots of information about why trans women should have their own competition category, but it's usually based on the different post-puberty physiological development of males and females. I don't think it's fair to a young female to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to train for a physical sport just so she can place second or third after people whose body is built like a male.

anger is incredibly healthy if channeled properly. anger fuels action. if you're not angry, you're less likely to do something to change things. lots of the legislation that the LGBTQ community has pushed through comes through anger. the stonewall riots, that got the ball rolling, were fueled by anger. indifference is not healthy nor productive. anger is an amazing tool.

and i don't feel that it's fair for a woman-man transgender person to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to train for a physical sport just to be told he can't compete. and what about all those man-to-woman transgendered folk who are nowhere as good as their female counterparts? who don't have the talent to compete and win? you don't hear about them in the news, because it's not as sensational, but THAT is where 99% of transgender athletes fall. i mean, just because someone is built like a male, you think they can beat out someone like Biles, or Ledecki, or Cohen?

Quote by ElCoco

It's about what the baker is being forced to do. The customer might not be gay. It's about the baker being free to say, "No, that's not something I want to do."

omg! i'm a baker and i'm being forced to bake a cake! i will never ever get over this! funny that gay bakers never refuse to make cakes celebrating straight weddings. i mean, can you imagine the outrage if that started happening?

Quote by ElCoco

And he'd be prosecuted for murder, just like he would have always been.

which doesn't bring the deceased back to life. see? that's the thing. you stir people up to the point of them committing violence against others and then they do and it's done. nothing that happens afterward makes up for the fact that someone is dead because of those actions.

Quote by Ironic

They do, but the only perceptions under our control are our own.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I got a sense from sprite's posts that she's upset about how the rest of society perceives her life. I think since she can't control society's perceptions, she isn't benefitting from being upset about them. What she can control and do is be a good example of an individual and stop worrying about something she can't control.

People can control any efforts they might have in getting allies to help change the laws they think need changing, so your idea along those lines would be positive.

nope. you got it wrong. i could care less how society perceives me as long as they afford me equal rights and protection and leave me alone to live my life as i see fit, that's the issue here - someone hates me because i'm gay? fine. their issue. someone takes away my rights or threatens me or commits crimes against me because i'm gay? THAT is the issue here. and obviously, since i AM a minority, and the majority seems comfortable in creating laws that take away my rights, it's not as easy as simply voting in people who are more LGBTQ+ friendly. can you imagine living in placees like Florida and Texas and the like and being gay when the folks in power a very vocal about you not being welcome there? you offer a very pollyanna dream of just liking yourself and changing things. i like myself fine and trust me, we (my wife and i) are involved in trying to make changes, but it takes more than two to effect change and a lot of people are very resistant to it.

and it's not always obvious bigotry. what set me off was the discussion of Trans people in sports and the fact that people seem to forget that these are people being discussed, with dreams of their own of playing sports, of being given a chance to do what they love, of BEING treated with dignity and respect and empathy, something i'm not seeing very much of in most of the posts.

Quote by Ensorceled

Loved Hijack. The last 10 minutes were kinda dumb, but overall I was great.

Just finished the first season of The Bear. LOVED it.

the Bear is brilliant, if super stressful. wait until you dig into season 2, omg,

Quote by Chryses

Were you to refuse service to anyone wearing a cross, I would expect you to be successfully prosecuted for discrimination, as not wanting "them doing anything funny" with your wine seems to me to be an inadequate basis for you refusing to serve members of the public,

I think it wise to review that sales strategy with a local lawyer.

edited

in the context of the subject, Felix could just pull out his shotgun and shoot them. i mean, sure, it would be a dick move, but hey, that's kind of where we are headed right now.

Quote by Chryses

Another sport recognizes the physiological differences between males and females. British Rowing updates Competition Eligibility Policy and Procedures

 

It is encouraging to see the addition of an “Open” category as part of the updates.

be even more encouraging when we can see separate categories for blacks, too - i mean, they dominate in track and field and other sports. seems kind of unfair. and what about all those asian table tennis players and hispanic football (soccer for all you 'muricans) players? can we please go back to segregating sports like god intended?

Quote by Seeker4

I wonder if you'll hear from anyone who actually fits what you're talking about. Ensorceled and I don't. I have been a supporter since the United Church of Canada went through a divisive battle over whether openly gay people could be ordained. To their everlasting credit, the church's General Council voted not to block ordination of gay people and the first openly gay minister (there were others before but not open, though one in my area was a worst kept secret) was ordained shortly thereafter. His husband, also a United Church minister, later become the church's first gay moderator. Sadly, my own congregation came down on the wrong side and that's probably part of why I eventually drifted away to Unitarian Universalism, where I joined a Welcoming congregation (some faiths/denominations also call it Affirming) whose chaplain performed the second same-sex marriage in London (Metropolitan Community Church went first).

Back on topic, straight on LGBTQ+ hate crime is one of the most terrible shames of Western society, though it seems especially strong in the US with some spillover into Canada (we had protests over drag queen storytime here in London, Ontario this year). Since I have been an ally since my teens and tentatively started identifying as bi myself in the past few years, I am really not sure why it sparks such hatred and violence. I am simply not plugged in enough to that segment of society. I think only race inspires as much animosity these days. Part of it may be that as more and more of society supports LGBTQ friendly policies (e.g. a decade after Canada allowed same-sex marriage, something like 70% of Canadians were in favour, not sure of current numbers) the opponents are feeling isolated and besieged in their opinions and are lashing out. But why there are still opponents at all, why people cannot accept people as people without worrying about who they sleep with or how they express their gender, remains a mystery to me. Which means, of course, I am really not sure of what the solutions are beyond taking names and kicking asses when appropriate.

when i posted this i expected it to me more of a litmus test than anything else. bit sad about that. i would like to get some honest feedback on the subject and not have it be an echo chamber - maybe some actual real discussion on the subject. and sadly, taking names and kicking asses is not a viable solution, or i'd be out doing it (dressed as Batman, probably). thing is, i've put a lot of energy into trying to change minds in non-confrontational ways, but it usually leaves me frustrated, that is what this thread is about - me being frustrated.

we fairly recently bought a house. it's in a nice hood. we are good neighbors. we keep the place looking nice, we're not loud, we are friendly and helpful (the woman next door is elderly so i usually mow her front lawn when i'm doing ours). couple down the street hate us. have since day one, the only real reason i can think of is that we're lesbians (confirmed by one of our neighbors). it's not a good feeling, although i can't say it's one i'm not used to. i mean, yes, we do a small, non-obtrusive, pride flag during Pride, but we're not in your face about our sexuality - that said, we are open about it. i refuse to let one family dictate if i can kiss my wife or hold her hand in public. no oral sex, though. we keep that stuff inside.

at work, we have a lot of diversity. different backgrounds and cultures, i am fairly certain that some of the women and some of their kids lean towards being gay, but are 'forbidden' to express it among their peers or anyone else, for that matter. it's quite . it does make me sad but i can't/won't push the issue. not my right to out someone.

back to the topic at hand. the backlash is real. for every step forward we take towards acceptance, the fear seems to grow. marriage was a biggie and apparently quite threatening to some people. the trans community starting to become more visible is the same thing. it's not like there are suddenly more trans people - it's just that more people are getting comfortable finally being who they are. not so long ago, drag was pretty much an acceptable thing - now, all of a sudden, there is legislation outlawing it. it's mind-bending, to be honest. how is that even harmful?

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/wave-of-anti-lgbtq-laws-passed-across-country/

see, here's the thing. i fell in love with another woman. we got married. how is that a threat to anyone? to our country? to our way of life? why is it such and issue? and yet, it is. same with trans folk. they identify whom they identify as. how is that a threat to anyone else? how about people just back off and accept them for who they are and stop treating them like freaks? these are real people with real feelings, with dreams, people who want to live their lives, fall in love, be happy. why are people so intent upon denying them these things?

Quote by Ensorceled

The trans community has been dehumanized by the right wing media machine, to scare people into voting Republican.

yes. and they are being treated like they are things. just pawns. that's how it started in germany, btw. they dehumanized the jews (and gays, as well, btw) so that no one blinked an eye when they started shipping them off to concentration camps.

personally, i don't hate straight people, or wish them ill. i just want to them leave us the fuck alone and let use live our lives - i mean, not like our gayness is hurting anyone. i'm constantly being lectured about the gay agenda - want to know what the actual gay agenda is? just let us love who we love and stay out of our fucking lives if you can't deal with it.

It's a little before my time, but when HIV became an issue, it was ignored as a gay disease. no one really cared about finding a cure until it was discovered that it could affect straight folk, too. the overlaying attitude was 'good. maybe it'll kill them all off'.

since people have no problem ganging up on transgender folk, i thought i'd start a thread about how awful straight people are to those in the LGBTQ+ community. let's start with hate crimes. when was the last time you heard about hate crimes being committed by LGBTQ+ folk against straight people? yet it happens all the time the other way around. most recent example, the woman at Lake Arrowhead murdered for displaying a rainbow flag. straight on gay violence yet again. and should i even attempt to start a list of all the politicians who have created, or tried to create, anti-LGBTQ+ policies? why are straight people so hung up on hating LGBTQ+?

why do some people have such hate for transgender folk? life is hard enough for them as it is without all the extra abuse and shit piled on them. i know most of you can't imagine what it's like to be the target of hatred, but maybe take a moment and think about it sometime.